Talk:Jesus Prayer

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The idea of using the prayer of the heart to achieve some sort of clarity of thought or depth of concentration is an idea adopted from Buddhists and other eastern philosophies either directly or indirectly. In any case, the practitioner’s goal may require concentration and focus, but these are not the goals. The goal is humility and contrition for ones sins. Phiddipus 9:28, 12 Nov 2004 (PST)

I have extensively edited the page on the Jesus Prayer. I hope that I have given adequate references. Orthodox Monk 08:19, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

The assertion above by Phiddipus that the Jesus Prayer, or Prayer of the Heart, or Hesychasm, depends on 'Buddhists and other eastern philosophies either directly or indirectly' is something that would need to be proved. It never has.Orthodox Monk 08:19, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

OM, you misunderstand what I said...What I said was in responce to the previous revision of the article at that time which claimed that the goal of the Jesus prayer was to achieve clarity of thought and depth of concentration. My responce was a disagreement to that statement. Such goals as clarity of thought and depth of concentration are not Orthodox Christian goals but goals more appropriate to Buddhist and other eastern, non christian philosopies. The Orthodox Christian goal in reciting the Jesus Prayer is to seek humility and contrition for ones sins. Phiddipus 02:41, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Sorry for the misunderstanding. What you say is correct. However, there is still a bit of confusion. While it is true that, in the sense that the West understands raja yoga, the goal of the Jesus Prayer is not to achieve clarity of thought and depth of concentration, you are creating an unfortunate dichotomy between that and compunction and humility, as if we had to choose one or the other. It is true that there is one school in the practice of the Jesus Prayer that emphasizes compunction and humility, cultivating tears. The problem arises in the practice of Hesychasm. For in a basic text of Hesychasm, Pros Theodoulon, by St Hesychios, closely connected to the Ladder of Divine Ascent of St John of Sinai, the goal of the Hesychast, or pratitioner of the Jesus Prayer, is to achieve sobriety (Gr: nepsis), the highest stage of which is the guard of the mind. This is a freedom from tempting thoughts (Gr: logismoi). This practice of sobriety is certainly integrated into the cultivation of humility (is there a Christian spirituality that does NOT cultivate humility?) and certainly does not frown on compunction. However, it does not cultivate feelings of compunction and humility. Instead, it aims for a sobriety which is similar to the clarity of thought and depth of concentration you speak of as being Eastern, although not merely for the sake of such clarity and concentration, which admittedly was your point. This sobriety is integrated into the continuous invocation of Jesus Christ by the Hesychast, and combined with an Eros for Jesus Christ. Hence it is a Christian sobriety. The Hesychast has a very intense but very sober relationship with Jesus Christ. If there is any problem with this, please reply. With best wishes--Orthodox Monk 09:18, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Text of the prayer

Where is it?

The text as taught to me by the Greek Orthodox monks following the traditions of the monastery of of St John on Patmos is

"Lord Jesus Christ, The Son of God, have Mercy on Me, the Sinner". When said in community the last part is changed to "Have Mercy on us". --Phiddipus 04:43, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Intro

Cut form intro:

However, a number of different repetitive prayer formulas have been attested in the history of Eastern Orthodox monasticism (e.g. the Prayer of St Ioannikios, the repetitive use of which by St Ioannikios (754–846) is described in his Life; the more recent practice of St Nicholas Velimirovich (1880–1956)). Sometimes the Jesus Prayer is alternated with an invocation to the Mother of God: "Most Holy Theotokos, save us." In such a case, the practitioner repeats, say, 400 Jesus Prayers and then 100 invocations of the Mother of God.

Doesn't belong in intro; just not sure where to paste it. --Uncle Ed 21:09, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I've put it into the article (new section). adriatikus | 14:26, 11 March 2007 (UTC)