Talk:Jesus (disambiguation)

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Contents 1 Deleted 'Jesus ben Nun' 2 Please include the following links 3 Christian obviously a jew?? 4 Jesus in popular songs/culture

I thought Jesus was just a translation into some other language of the name "Joshua." [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 01:42, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

It is a translation of the hebrew name "Yeshua" into english via greek (the greek being "Iesu"). The direct translation into english is "Joshua" --81.156.181.83 00:42, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The claim that it is a translation of Yeshua although extremely popular in lay literature is highly misleading. Jesus is the Greek translation of Joshua which is Yehoshua in Hebrew. Jeshua/Yeshua is a shortened form of Joshua that is only attested in the period of Ezra and Nehemiah Since Jeshua in Ezra, Nehemiah and Chronicles is variant of Joshua, the Septuagint also translates it as Jesus. There is no evidence of the usage of Yeshua in the Hellenistic and Roman periods, unless you count the phoney James bone box :P Kuratowski's Ghost

Yeshu is a "pet" name for "Yehosua" just like "Bob" is a "pet" name for "Robert" and "Lizzy" is a "Pet" name for "Elizabeth". CheeseDreams 01:04, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Read the Yeshu article. Kuratowski's Ghost 12:15, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I have removed the reference to a Jesus son of Pandera, the individual is actually called Jeshu/Yeshu son of Pandera, translating the name Yeshu as Jesus is POV bias, many scholars feel there is no connection to the name Jesus.

I have also removed Jesus ben Stada, the individual is never called Jesus, adding the name Jesus when it is unattested is POV bias, in fact downright dishonesty Kuratowski's Ghost

Ok we can keep these references as long as they are clarified. I have removed the wild POV speculation that ben Pandera might have been the founder of the Essenes, he was an idolator and the Essenes weren't so its really a bizarre speculation. Also ben Stada was stoned not crucified and the claim that this was in the second century is POV, another POV is that he was ben Pandera from the 1st century BC which combined with the POV that Yeshu = Jesus is the only reason to call him Jesus. The description of ben Pandera and ben Stadas activities as aggitation is also POV and has been removed. Kuratowski's Ghost

Actually the Yeshu of the Macabbee era is not called ben Pandera, the Yeshu called ben Pandera was the teacher of Jacob of Sichnin, its POV to assume they are the same and it contradicts the fact that they would have live 2 centuries apart, so I've split the entry for Yeshu. Kuratowski's Ghost

I put a proportion of the names in after reading an article somewhere. The Yeshu at the Macabbee era is ben Pandira, when I came to put in ben Pandera from the Yeshu article, I assumed it was a typo, which is obviously not the case - I was a bit confused how the article could justify Yeshu ben Pandera as being Yeshu ben Stada since there was the centuries gap. The article I was reading referred to their activities as aggitation, and I can't really think of an NPOV alternative, maybe "being a bit annoying" or something.

Pandira is just an alternative spelling of Pandera. The Yeshu of the Macabbee era is not called ben Pandera or ben Pandira in the primary source the Babylonian Talmud, calling him that is a POV assumption that he is the same as the Yeshu ben Pandera who taught Jacob of Sichnin. I again removed Yeshu from the name ben Stada as he is never called Yeshu in the original sources, calling him Yeshu is a POV assumption that he is identical to Yeshu ben Pandera. Kuratowski's Ghost

I have put Jesus ben Nun back in. Leaving this one out is ridiculous.

I removed the reference to idolatry. This is POV. What one person thinks is idolatry isnt the same as another, e.g. John Knox versus Oxford Movement.

CheeseDreams 18:18, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The idolatry reference was still there. It isn't POV, the primary source about him describes him as "worshipping a brick" a euphemism for idolatry. Kuratowski's Ghost

It is indeed idolatry from the books POV. The disambiguation page, however, isn't supposed to be so biased. I have removed it.

Please stop putting the Yeshu back in front of ben Stada, this creates the false impression that this individual is so named in the sources about him when this is not the case. Calling him Yeshu is an interpretation that he is Yeshu ben Pandera. Kuratowski's Ghost 00:57, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

How do the sources name him? That should be put in. Just having "ben Stada" makes it look completely bizarre that anyone should think him Jesus at all. I will put in "Yeshu" ben Stada unless you come up with an alternative. CheeseDreams 01:02, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The sources call him "ben Stada"; some people link ben Stada with Yeshu ben Pandera, but regardless he's called ben Stada. Jayjg 02:18, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Adding Yeshu to ben Stada is like calling Shakespeare, Francis Shakespeare, on the POV that he was really Francis Bacon. :) Kuratowski's Ghost 12:15, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I've also removed the claim that ben Stada's execution was 2nd century, this is also POV based on the assumption that he is Yeshu ben Pandera. I also changed Maccabees to Hasmoneans for the first Yeshu, Hasmoneans is more accurate, Maccabees are the ancestors of the Hasmoneans who were at war with the Seleucids, this happened decades after. Kuratowski's Ghost 23:42, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Deleted 'Jesus ben Nun'

I deleted 'Jesus ben Nun, identical to Joshua ben Nun the hero of the Biblical book of Joshua', becasue, frankly, i think it's a mistransliteration. The term 'Jesus ben Nun' only gets 3 different English hits on Google. One of them claims that the story of Jesus is 'based partly on the Jewish exodus myth and Joshua/Jesus ben Nun' ('Why Jesus didn't exist', http://www.bandoli.no/whyjesus.htm). The second is a parody of the first ('Why Jesus did exist', http://www.tektonics.org/bandoli03.htm). The third claims that 'when Moses passes on his authority to Jesus ben Nun, Joshua-Jesus also receives "the Spirit of Sophia"' ('Christanity's lost goddess...the Sophia' http://firstnewtestament.netfirms.com/christianity_lost_goddess_sophia.htm).

Deuteronomy 34:9
Revised Standard Version: 'And Joshua the son of Nun'.
The Holman Christian Standard Bible: 'Joshua son of Nun'
The Jewish Publication Society's Old Testament: 'And Joshua the son of Nun'
New International Version: 'Now Joshua son of Nun'
Amplified Bible: 'And Joshua son of Nun'
American Standard Bible: 'And Joshua the son of Nun'
King James Version: 'And Joshua the son of Nun'

etc.

If 'Yehoshua ben Nun' is transliterated to 'Jesus ben Nun' in any respectable source, be it academic or religious, I'd be happy to see it put back. --Jill St. Crux 00:01, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Its because Yehoshua translates as Jesus.

This could easily be the Yehosua (disambiguation) page, and would still contain the same list of people. CheeseDreams

No, no it couldn't. Nobody looks in the English Wikipedia under Jesus for the guy who felled the walls of Jericho; you'd have to already be aware of the possible (tenuous) transliteration—to English, from a certain Greek noun case, of an Aramaic contraction of a Hebrew name—to make the connection in the first place, in which case you'd never logically proceed to this disambiguation page.

Joshua ben Nun—Yehoshua, if you like—would never have been known as Yeshua (that name hadn't even been coined at the time in which the OT is set, or for that matter the language), much less the Greek Iesou, and certainly not the English Jesus. Stop trying to inject fallacious study group trivia into a serious, grown-up encyclopedia. A. D. Hair 16:28, Dec 15, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Please include the following links

Hello I recommend to include the following links

1. New Testament view on Jesus' life http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Testament_view_on_Jesus
2. Historical Jesus http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus

Oub 15:02, 2 March 2006 (UTC):

Those are links to Wikipedia articles. Jayjg ^(talk) 20:56, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Christian obviously a jew??

Third line down:

A Christian, evidently Jewish, and fellow worker of Paul. He was also called Justus.(Colossians 4:11).

Possibly he was "Christian, evidently Israli" or "Christian, formerly Jewish" or "Christian, renounced Jewish" - but I don't see how he can simultaneously be Christian AND Jewish esp. given the era. Garrie 00:08, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jesus in popular songs/culture

The list of pop songs with "Jesus" in the title seems very selective - there are lots more, such as those listed at [1].

I actually came to this disambig page hoping to find an entry on the famous bloke who used to go to (British) rock gigs in the 70s whom everyone knew as "Jesus" - immortalised in the Strawbs song "The Man Who Called Himself Jesus" and a well-known rock anecdote about a Frank Zappa gig where Zappa singled him out of the audience and said "Jesus - dance!" Any ideas?