Talk:Jersey

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 This article has been reviewed by the Version 1.0 Editorial Team.
Jersey was a good article candidate, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. Once the objections listed below are addressed, the article can be renominated. You may also seek a review of the decision if you feel there was a mistake.

Date of review: 5 October 2006
This article has been selected for Version 0.5 and the next release version of Wikipedia. This Geography article has been rated B-Class on the assessment scale.
Other languages WikiProject Echo has identified Jersey as a foreign language featured article. You may be able to improve this article with information from the French language Wikipedia.

Please adapt the Jerriais version of this page to confrom to the English language version not the other way around as no one in Jersey really speaks Jerriais anymore.

DariusJersey 05:18, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Sorry if I'm being overly timid by posting here, and should be editing the article, but I'm not a Wikipedia regular. Just pointing out an error in the Currency section: Pound coins are much less widely used than notes, not more. Furthermore, can Insula Caesarea really mean Island of Jersey?

Duly changed! On the motto: The States Treasury say that although on the coins it may look as though it says Caesarea Insula from the way it runs round the edge, it is supposed to be Insula Caesarea. And apparently both words should be in the nominative case, so in Latin it reads "Island Jersey" rather than having a genitive construction like in English. So I'm told. Man vyi 14:23, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

So what is Sark then, if not a Channel Island? --Dweir

It is a Channel Island, but it's in the Bailiwick of Guernsey, so it doesn't get a mention in the Jersey article. --Zundark, 2001 Nov 17

Oops, my mistake (but is is a bit confusing :). Sorry! --Dweir

I've just added a link from the "Communications" sub-page to Channel Television, and commented that Portuguese is widely used on the island thanks to migrant hotel workers. -- Arwel 00:43 Feb 8, 2003 (UTC)

I think it is confusing to say that a jersey is also a sweater. There are subtle differences between the two, and though a hockey jersey is technically called a "hockey sweater," in general they are not the same thing. --Daniel C. Boyer 15:43, 5 Aug 2003 (UTC)

I've edited that part a bit but it could probably still use some work. Especially the link-to-nowehere I created.
fvincent 06:57, Nov 29, 2003 (UTC)

Channel Islanders have not recently changed their minds: the Queen's traditional title is that of Duke of Normandy. One might contest the legal basis of the title, but can one deny that people have the right to decide what the title of their head of state is?

BTW there is a page /Temp to expand and convert the article Jersey over to the new format agreed to at WikiProject Countries. Please feel free to add or edit anything on this page to help in the conversion process. --User:Docu

Contents

[edit] King John Losing territories?

I dont think the statement about King John (lackland) losing all his territories is accurate. i dont know anything specific as to jersey, but i'm fairly certain England still had possesions on the continent long after his reign.

[edit] Official language

Jersey's website states that English is the official language of the island. It doesn't mention French or Jèrriais being official, though it does agree that French is used for legal purposes. I think the sidebar in our article is confusing: it says Jèrriais is recognized as a regional language. That makes it sound like it's a regional language within Jersey. Actually, I think what it means is that the UK government recognizes it as a regional language within the meaning of the European Charter for Regional Languages (though Jersey isn't part of the UK). According to the page on Jèrriais, the Jersey government is considering ratifying the charter. If they are considering it, that must mean they haven't done so, unless this is out of date. Rjp08773 18:43, 5 Jan 2005 (UTC)

French is indeed one of Jersey's official languages, though it is rarely used for meetings, etc. Jèrriais was recognized as a regional ("Minority and lesser-used") language by the British-Irish Council. The Jade Knight 01:41, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Jersey and the United Kingdom

Is there a sense in which the UK is itself a crown dependency? Or: is there a sense in which Jersey regards the UK as having co-equal status? Laurel Bush 16:36, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC).

The UK is not a Crown dependency, one must suppose, not being a territory dependent on the Crown but a sovereign state. Jersey is not sovereign, not having control of its own defence or its own diplomacy. There is currently a rumbling debate in Jersey about the Bailiwick's identity on the world stage and the need perceived in some quarters to redefine the relationship with the UK and the EU. This has been brought into focus by the 2004 celebrations of 800 years of independence/links with the Crown (a somewhat paradoxical conjunction of concepts), and the move to ministerial government under a Chief Minister after the elections at the end of this year. While the power relationship is clearly unequal, Jersey people express a cultural pride in the Channel Islands being the oldest possessions of the British Crown, the countries of the UK being comparative latecomers. Man vyi 17:53, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Duchess of Normandy

In theory, wouldn't a female monarch be Duchess of Normandy rather than Duke of Normandy? Or is this kind of like the female Emperor of China kind of thing, haha? --Dpr 07:16, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

A female monarch is always Duke of Normandy (never Duchess) and Lord of Mann (never Lady). See British monarchy site Man vyi 08:39, 10 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Map size

It has come to my attention that someone keeps changing the size of the map. If you have your screen on a higher resolution, you can see things easier (and better). Those who run, say, 800x600 (or smaller) are going to have a jumbled screen. Try a setting like 1024x768. Rarelibra 7:51 23 JAN 2006

[edit] Opinions?

Maybe it's just me, but the article says both that most people in Jersey value the relationship between Jersey and the crown, and that 68% voted for Jersey's independence. There seems some contradiction here...

The Crown is one thing - the UK and its government is another thing entirely. One can quite reasonably wish to establish a sovereign state while preserving the monarch as head of state, i.e. turning the Crown dependency into a Commonwealth realm. No contradiction necessary. Man vyi 16:43, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] GA review

As of 5 October 2006, per WP:WIAGA, here's the assessment of this article for WP:GA status:

  1. The number of references is too small (only 2 inlines and 1 offline). There are many sections unsourced, which mostly suffered are historical facts in History section and statistics numbers in Economy and Demographics sections. I see also some [citation needed] tags in some places. I'm not going to put any template, but please fix this to satisfies the verfiability criteria (2.a and 2.d).
  2. The inline reference #2 is not verifiable. Please include also which article of the Jersey Evening Post that is used.
  3. There are many orphan paragraphs that contains only 1 or 2 sentences. These might be merged with the other, as they break the flow.
  4. There are redundancies of sentences with the infobox. For example, the Census subsection which only contains 2 sentences is redundant with the information already in the box.
  5. Some part of this article is a bit list-like article. It should be converted into more textual description or put them into tabular form. An example is in Coinage subsection.
  6. The whole article needs to be reorganized into more logical structure. Small subsections with only a few sentences are not good, because they create a fragmented article, rather than a complete story. (criterion 1.b)
  7. Image Image:Jersey_Film_Festival_2005.jpg has copyright notation and no fair use rationale is given. Please fix this. (criterion 6.a)
  8. I see some of peacock terms and sometimes I sensed of ads campaign in the following statements:
    • "Jersey history is significant because of its strategic...". Let the reader decides him/herself how significant the history is.
    • "... that has also been acknowledged (though not widely so) for the quality of its meat.". Just support this claim with reliable source.
  9. Some weasel words are found:
    • "Formally constituted political parties are unfashionable, although groups of "like-minded members" act in concert."
    • "As VAT has not been levied in the Island, luxury goods have often been cheaper than in the UK or in France providing an incentive for tourism from neighbouring countries." It is not a fact, but rather a speculative statement.
    • "Recently, Jersey two pound coins which still go around the island today, were sold on ebay for more than they were worth." It is an unclear fact of how much they were worth. Also avoid recently, because it does not state exact time for a reader.
    • "Pound coins are issued, but are much less widely used than pound notes." Perhaps a citation is needed to support this claim.
  10. Some sentences that look opinion to me, as they are unsourced and it clearly has POV tone. (criterion 4)
    • "Should the UK sign up to the single-currency treaty, Jersey may decline and choose to maintain the Pound on its own, endowed as it is with its own treasury and economic prosperity as a result of its status as one of the world's largest offshore financial centres."
    • "Most Jersey-born people consider themselves British and value the special relationship between the British Crown and the Island." Also avoid a vague number, such as most. The special relationship is also unexplained.
    • "Jersey, like most places in the western world, has an ageing population. Reasons for this change particular to Jersey are the emigration of young people seeking opportunities the Island cannot provide." Vague number with most. The last sentence is also a bit awkward.
  11. Prose rewording for a non-specialist reader (criterion 1.a):
    • "It includes 53 elected members - 12 senators (elected for 6-year terms), 12 constables (heads of parishes elected for 3-year terms), 29 deputies (elected for 3-year terms); the Bailiff and the Deputy Bailiff (appointed to preside over the assembly and having a casting vote in favour of the status quo when presiding); and 3 non-voting members - the Dean of Jersey, the Attorney General, and the Solicitor General all appointed by the Crown." This sentence is too long to describe many things and hence confusing. It might be better to break it into several unambiguous sentences.
    • "Her representative on the island is the Lieutenant Governor, Lieutenant General Andrew Ridgway who has little but a token involvement in island politics." Why are there two lieutenant ranks? Who is Andre Ridgway? Is he a current representative? Please avoid facts that are likely to change in the near future, if he is the current representative.
    • "The Church of England is the established church, but Methodism is traditionally strong in the countryside and there is a large Roman Catholic minority. See Religion in Jersey." Confusing statements.
    • "The Jersey Democratic Alliance is the only party currently having States Members, although these were elected as independents." Contradiction. See words to avoid.
    • "It is spoken by a minority of the population, although it was the majority language in the 19th century." Also a contradiction.
  12. In the Economy section, there is a list of notably hotels. This looks like an advertisement to me. Unless the hotel has an important history, it can be listed there and with reliable source as well.

As a conclusion, this article fails for Good Article status. As always, editors can submit this article to WP:GA/R, if they disagree with my reviews above, or resolve those matters and renominate it again. Cheers. — Indon (reply) — 09:54, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

1. I have added 16 references: seven of those are in the history section, six in the economy section and one in the demographics section.
4. I made the information on the Census part of the demographics section and removed the redudant information.
8. 1. I changed this to: Jersey history is the result of its strategic location …
8. 2. I added two sources: the first is the Financial Times newspaper reporting that "consumer response [to Jersey meat] has been so vigorous locally that export inquiries, both retail and restaurant, have been put on hold"; the second is an article quoting a farmer saying that "Jersey meat is the most tender meat there is".
9. 3. I removed the dubious statement.
11. 3. The statement seems clear enough to me. The Church of England is the state church, but there is a strong Methodist tradition in the countryside and there are also many Catholics. If you can express the idea in a more clear fashion, you are most welcome to.
I've made a copyedit. It basically needs a wording. When you have many facts in one sentence, it's confusing. It's better to split one sentence, one fact. — Indon (reply) — 11:55, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
11.4. As I understand it, some States Members belong to the Jersey Democratic Alliance, but they did not run on its platform.
This is also the same case of using although. You might just have rephrase it. I've tried, but it confuses me. It says, "the only party currently having States Members". Is there only one party in Jersey, or are there many parties in Jersey, where others do not have their members as States Members? You know better than me, so you can rephrase it well. — Indon (reply) — 11:55, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
11.5. Why is this a contradiction? It was the majority language in the 19th century and it is now a minority language.
This is also 2 facts in one sentence. Using although as a conjugation is permitted, but should be best avoided. I've made a copyedit of this sentence. — Indon (reply) — 11:55, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
12. I added a reference for the Pomme d'Or being the German Navy Headquarters during the Occupation.
Thank you very much for your input.
God bless you,
Grumpy Troll (talk) 13:21, 7 October 2006 (UTC).
I know this is well after the fact, but I believe many of the sentences Indon has problems with are perfectly fine and encyclopedic (on par with what I find in English graduate papers). The confusion may come from his not being a native English speaker, however. The Jade Knight 02:44, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I've seen a lot of improvements. Very good. I've made some changes regarding your questions above. Please check the changes. You just need to ensure clarity, no confusing statements. After that, you can renominate it again in WP:GAC. Good luck and happy editing. Cheers. — Indon (reply) — 11:55, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Beer, Ale

Sorry, my english is simple. I was on a Channel Island (I think it was Jersey, but I'm not sure). I come from St. Malo (bycicle tour) and sleeps one night on Jersey (or Guernsey?). I have drink an Island beer (or ale). I found the bitter, was very good. I don't find something about them in this article. At my bycicle tours on the island I have some problems. I want do drive round the island. But the ways goin in the centre. And there was not any sign-board before the cities. Can anybody help with beer? --Chauki 09:01, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Location maps available for infoboxes of European countries

On the WikiProject Countries talk page, the section Location Maps for European countries had shown new maps created by David Liuzzo, that are available for the countries of the European continent, and for countries of the European Union exist in two versions. From November 16, 2006 till January 31, 2007, a poll had tried to find a consensus for usage of 'old' or of which and where 'new' version maps. Please note that since January 1, 2007 all new maps became updated by David Liuzzo (including a world locator, enlarged cut-out for small countries) and as of February 4, 2007 the restricted licence that had jeopardized their availability on Wikimedia Commons, became more free. At its closing, 25 people had spoken in favor of either of the two presented usages of new versions but neither version had reached a consensus (12 and 13), and 18 had preferred old maps.
As this outcome cannot justify reverting of new maps that had become used for some countries, seconds before February 5, 2007 a survey started that will be closed soon at February 20, 2007 23:59:59. It should establish two things: Please read the discussion (also in other sections α, β, γ, δ, ε, ζ, η, θ) and in particular the arguments offered by the forementioned poll, while realizing some comments to have been made prior to updating the maps, and all prior to modifying the licences, before carefully reading the presentation of the currently open survey. You are invited to only then finally make up your mind and vote for only one option.
There mustnot be 'oppose' votes; if none of the options would be appreciated, you could vote for the option you might with some effort find least difficult to live with - rather like elections only allowing to vote for one of several candidates. Obviously, you are most welcome to leave a brief argumentation with your vote. Kind regards. — SomeHuman 19 Feb 2007 00:26 (UTC)
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