User talk:JdeJ

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[edit] Welcome

Welcome!

Hello, JdeJ, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!  Jpe|ob 11:00, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Finnish people

You wrote: "Find a source for your claims. Inserting unsourced personal opinions is not in accordance with what Wikipedia stands for". But there is a source, the Folkting link! And why does it matter whether it is the first or the third sentence? During the Swedish rule in Finland (12th or 13th century until 1809) Swedish was the language of the state affairs and the nobility (at least from the New Age), it was the only official language. Because of this many Finns who wanted to climb the social ladder changed their language to Swedish. Civil servants worked in Swedish, so language change was a must for many. --Jaakko Sivonen 15:07, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

It's true that some Finns changed their language to Swedish during the Swedish rule and that some Swedes changed their language to Finnish during the end of the Russian rule. That a significant proportion of both language groups have an ancestry that partially lies within the other language group is obvious. What I take issue with is claiming that the origin of Finland-Swedes is mainly due to Finns changing language. That is not the case, at least I've never found any source claiming that. JdeJ 15:36, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
I would say that this section in fi.wiki supports that: http://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suomenruotsalaiset#Suomenruotsalaisten_alkuper.C3.A4 It mentions the Swedish immigrants in the Middle Ages, but seemingly puts more value on the language change (notice the word kuitenkin - however). --Jaakko Sivonen 15:44, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
Proving one thing in Wikipedia just with another section of Wikipedia does not correspond to external sources. That paragraph does not say that Finland-Swedish ancestry is mainly due to language change. Even if it did, that would not be an external source. JdeJ 19:25, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
It does imply it, since it talks mainly about language change, only briefly mentioning immigrants from Sweden. --Jaakko Sivonen 15:09, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hi

Thanks for your comments on my page regarding Finnish people. The other user clearly has some agenda and is not only rude, but not acting in the spirit of Wikipedia. He speaks of me using non-sense, but himself uses compeltely unreferenced claims and his own very controversial POV. Not only this, his personal attacks aren't that welcome either and I will report him to the admin. if it continues in such a manner. Thanks anyway and its always good too see more Christians on Wikipedia, ciao. Epf 21:09, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

You are a lie spreading , anti-Finnish agenda pushing person who knows virtually nothing about Finnic peoples. I will speak my mind, I have a one month block in Finnish Wikipedia for critisizing the Svekoman users there, so I don't mind going down fighting against Finn-haters here as well. --Jaakko Sivonen 15:27, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
I see no reason why Epf would be anti-Finnish or a Finn-hater and I attribute those comments to your lack of perspective. Once again, you have to accept that people can disagree with you. Whenever someone goes against your personal opinions, you answer with abuses instead of engaging in a civilised discussion. It's not gaining you any credibility. Further insults by you on this page will be deleted, but you're always welcome to make constructive comments both here and elsewhere. JdeJ 10:04, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Majorities and minorities in info boxes

You claimed that no other people article mentions them in the info box, but in the Swedish people it does say "87% of Sweden is composed of Lutherans". Are you going to remove it too? And why should the box not contain that important information? People might take one look at the article and think that there are about as many Finnish and Swedish speakers and Lutherans and Orthodoxes. --Jaakko Sivonen 18:34, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't mind, I just think we should be consistent. If you want to have it in, I'd suggest you give the acutal percentages within brackets instead of saying 'small minority'. It's both more informative and looks better. JdeJ 18:37, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
To my recollection I put it in percentages first, but you deleted it... Aiotko poistaa maininnan luterilaisten ruotsalaisten osuudesta väestössä artikkelissa ruotsalaiset, vai et? --Jaakko Sivonen 18:41, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Right you are, although that was because you only gave percentages for the languages, not for the religions, making it seem like a targeting of Finland-Swedes Insert percentages for all four groups if you want, I won't touch them. En, en aio poistaa sitä ruotsalaisten artikkelista mutta minun mielestäni artikkeli olisi kyllä siistimpi ilman sitä. JdeJ 18:51, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Tehty (prosentit vuoden 2005 tilastojen mukaan). --Jaakko Sivonen 19:11, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Ok, tein vaan pikkusen muutoksen niin että näyttää paremmalta, tekstiä ei tarvita.


[edit] Hello

Is it you, Litany? --PaxEquilibrium 18:56, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

No, sorry. Never heard about anybody by that name. This is the only name I'm using on Wikipedia. JdeJ 19:13, 19 October 2006 (UTC)


[edit] 3RR

You're getting pretty close to violating the three revert rule. Please have a look at this essay and remember that editing an encyclopedia isn't a matter of life and death. I've blanked other warnings to your user page per Wikipedia:Ignore all rules because they accuse you of vandalism when your edits are not vandalism but part of a content dispute. Durova 15:15, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tajik calling me a racist

Per your request I have re-introduced Tajik's comments in their entirety. This was not a personal attack on Tajik, but a summary of what Tajik had said. You added a NPA warning to my page, when no one ever asks Tajik to stop personally attacking other users, especially Turks and Pashtuns.

I have attempted to follow WP dispute resolution process in dealing with Tajik, by discussing the issues with him, and by withdrawing from the dispute as advised. This has gotten me mocked, harassed, and personally attacked by Tajik, and administrators who support him.

But no administrator ever calls Tajik to task no matter how outrageous his behavior--and he is continued to allow to flame, call other users racists, not support his arguments, do anything he wants to in creating a hostile atmosphere at Wikipedia for Turks and Pashtuns.

He can ask an administrator to block a user for calling him a Nazi, and a couple of administrators jump to the task. Yet he calls me Taliban supporter, much worse than a Nazi for an Afghan, and nothing.

I did get the message about the dispute resolution process at Wikipedia, though: Don't bother!

KP Botany 20:16, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm not familiar with the user so I can't comment on his actions. The point here is that possible wrong-doings by other users does not grant any of us the right to do wrong in return. If you feel that you have been attacked, I understand that you are frustrated although it still does not justify attacking others. I'm glad to hear that you edited the part I commented upon. However, you had no right to remove the warning I had put on your page, but I'll put that down as inexperience and not bother about it. Just remember it for the future. JdeJ 21:21, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
Why can't I remove the warning? It's my talk page. And Tajik simply removes them from his talk page, and no one tells him he can't do that.
And, again, I did NOT attack him, I simply abbreviated his attack on me, I didn't make anything up, it's all there, even worse than my abbreviated from. How can you not know Tajik? His are the racist words posted on my talk page, that you forced me to put back on my talk page.
So Tajik can call me a racist, and Taliban-supporter, and that is NOT an attack, but if I abbreviate what he wrote, accurately saying what he said, I'm personally attacking him? How is that? They're his words, not mine.
Again, Wikipedia dispute resolutions should certainly come with a warning: don't waste your time, because more experienced users will simply effectively attack and harass and bully you while you're doing so, via administrator-fishing. What a horrendously unfair double standard. Tajik can post the comments ABOUT ME, but the same comments, if altered by me in the least bit, are a personal attack against him. That's outrageous.
But there you go, I've put it back up, Tajik calling me a racist left and right, because, after all, I wouldn't want to violate any Wikipedia policies about allowing other editors to personally attack me. What an incredible waste of time, too.
No matter what I do, Tajik will relentlessly continue harassing me with the assitance of administrators like you, who say that Tajik's words are not a personal attack when said by him, but are one when quoted by me.
KP Botany 23:30, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moving Raasepori Castle to Raseborg Castle

Hello. Please use the move function, instead of copy-and-paste, when renaming a page. This avoids splitting the page history in several places. You should also state the reasons for moving an article in the summary or on the article's talk page. Thanks. --KFP (talk | contribs) 11:20, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for your comment, both advices are very good and I will follow them in the future. Thanks again! JdeJ 11:22, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sorry

Sorry for the Treaty of Fredrikshamn revert, I was looking at Jaakko's edit, went away for a while and returned and reverted, I didn't notice that you had been there.--MoRsE 23:45, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

No problem, I guessed that might have been the case. I'm getting quite tired of the same pages being vandalised by the same user over and over again, guess I'm not the only one.JdeJ 23:48, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
Yes, he's doing the same in svwiki, fiwiki and wikiquote too...MoRsE 23:51, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
Really? Well, I'm not surprised to hear it. One apparent flaw in Wikipedia policies is that a block in one language isn't carried over to the other versions.JdeJ 23:53, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] what does Finnic stand for when actually used?

I have for some years used to refer to Wikipedia articles. They do, however, have a tendency to change.

In some cases, this means that they not only give different answers from time to time, but they do actually answer different questions from time to time.

I'm not sure this is advantageous.

In any case, it does without any doubt disencourage me from referring to Wikipedia.

Specifically, the term "Finnic" is one of those obscure concepts that I've been happy to find explained at Wikipedia. There was once a sentence that, at least for me, was much enlightening about how the concepts Finnish/Finnic could be used in English by Finns, en explanation that helpfully made some wordings I'd come across not only understandable to me, but reasonable.

Paraphrasing, to distinguish between historically nomadic (or whatever) Lapps and agricultural Finns.

Using the history-tab, I browsed and found you editing this paragraph away with the explanation that you rewrote to make the text "more up to date".

OK.

You may be right.

I've no privileged knowledge about what the term means, but I dare say that as far as I can judge, your contributions have not made this article more useful to people in my situation.

Regards!

Christopher Hansen —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 90.224.17.83 (talk) 01:13, 7 December 2006 (UTC).

I would have to disagree with you. It is true that the article may be less straightforward now than before my edit, but I see no point in an article being straightforward and wrong. The paragraph that I rewrote did not correspond to reality and contradicted all modern research. JdeJ 10:25, 7 December 2006 (UTC)


[edit] 67.165.216.16/Primetime

67.165.216.16 is hard-banned user Primetime (talk · contribs · logs · block user · block log). If you see any edits by that IP or by users who appear to be him please contact me or another admin. All of his contributions should be reverted on sight. -Will Beback · † · 01:36, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the information! JdeJ 13:48, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "När finskan rensades ut ur Norrbotten"

Article Northern Sweden was Finnish up to the 20th century. The Swedes commited an ethnic cleansing by forcing the original Finnish population the Swedish language and indentity. "Det finskspråkiga Norrbotten har genomgått en etnisk "reningsprocess"." When is Sweden going to give the area to the Finns? --Jaakko Sivonen 20:42, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

To begin with, I have no idea why you post this here, it's of no interest to me. I also suggest you check up on what ethnic cleansing means, as you clearly does not understand the term.JdeJ 21:09, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
The writer him/herself writes "en etnisk "reningsprocess"". So... --Jaakko Sivonen 22:14, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Why I posted this: to remind everyone who are the original people on the both shores of the Bothnic. --Jaakko Sivonen 22:30, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Oh, I see. As far as science (as opposed to nationalist fantasies) can tell, the same people have been living in Scandinavia for thousands of years and their languages are unknown. Later in history, the arrival of Indo-Europeans and Finno-Ugrians meant that these languages were adopted, but the population remained the same. As for the first languages known to be spoken in the region, the first known language spoken in what is now Northern Sweden and in all of Finland except the Southern coast was the Sámi language(s). The first language known to have been spoken in Southern Finland and further south in the region was a Indo-European Baltic language. Finnish arrived later late from the east, just as Swedish arrived quite late from the Southwest.JdeJ 17:31, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Inaccurate and offensive"

How exactly is the map you removed from Europe inaccurate and offensive? JIP | Talk 07:49, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your question, I should have explained it on the talk page. The text of the map is 'Countries of Europe in local languages'. Yet it only gives the Spanish name for Spain, not the Catalan, Basque or Galician names. I don't see the Hungarian name of Romania despite over a million Hungarians calling Romania home. Even if the text was changed to say 'Countries of Europe in official local languages', the map would still be wrong. It gives all the official languages of some countries but not of others. Finland is just as bilingual as Belgium, yet I see only a text saying Suomi on this map. That is why the map is inaccurate. It is also why it is offensive - it is very offensive to the millions of us people who have lived for hundreds or over a thousand years in a country to find a map that does not recognise our existance and equal rights in our countries. JdeJ 16:04, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks for your message

JdeJ, thank you for the sweet message on my talk page. I never thought of us as "campers", maybe more like a bunch of cyberspace hitchhikers, searching for our scholarly guides to the galaxy. ;) Being in a camp, even if it's located in outer cyberspace, is too confining for a free-roaming spirit, eh? Pia 19:50, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

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