User talk:JCCO
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==¡Bienvenidos!== Saludos Juan! My name's Nathaniel, but I go by the username Spangineer around here. I hope you enjoy editing wikipedia and that you stick around. If you have any questions about anything related to wikipedia, just let me know – go to my talk page, hit the plus sign (+) next to "edit this page" at the top and leave me a note. You can sign your name after you're done by typing ~~~~. A few links you might find useful include: Tutorial, Manual of Style, Community Portal, Policy Library and perhaps most importantly, the Sandbox, where you can just play around and try different things. Have a great day, and again, ¡dime si tienes una pregunta! Happy editing! Spangineer ∞ 19:45, May 21, 2005 (UTC)
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[edit] Motto on Chile page
Hi Nathaniel,
I hope you don't object to my reverting your translation of the motto too much, but there was some discussion previously on that page over what was the best way to translate that motto and the general consenus was "By reason or by force" although what you had put might be literally correct. I have a great affection for Lima and Peru. I was previously married to a Peruvian for many years and I lived in Rimac (Ciudad y Campo) for some months and I know Arequipa, Huancayo, La Merced, Satipo and Juaja. I started articles Mantaro Valley, Casma Valley and have done quite a bit of editing on Peruvian Cuisine. I am now living in Concepcion in Chile.
Cheers..Paul Conce 00:44, 2005 August 19 (UTC)
[edit] Ditto
Yes, I have changed that also to be consistent. Thanks Conce 04:58, 2005 August 19 (UTC)
[edit] Sumac & Flórez
For both Sumac and Flórez, THEIR OWN identity was the PRIME FACTOR. Only THEN was phenotype also a contributing factor, which complimented their identity. In Perú, where around 37% are mestizo, and 45% are Amerindian, people like Flórez that have a slight non-European admixture (in his case Afro-peruvian admixture) are the ones that are classified and classify themselves as being the white population of Perú (15% of the population).
If you insist on placing Flórez as a mixed race Peruvian, which at the end of the day I admit he is (although the admixture is small, and Afro-peruvian for that matter), then I suggest you place him as an example on the Mulatto article. But as I said, for all puroses, in Perú, Flórez and people like him (with slight non-European admixture) are that country's whites. If not, then Perú has no whites. Al-Andalus 03:39, 24 February 2006 (UTC).
[edit] The other cases
Obviously cultural identity is the most important factor, and if it fits with the phenotype, then that is what is taken. But if the identity of the person does not fit neatly with the actual phenotype they present, then it can't be said that they are that identity, if we are going to be encyclopædic about it.
If someone of distant mestizo ancestry appears white, and his identity is white, then by all means he must be presented as white on this ecyclopædia, and especially for the purpose of racial classification in Perú.
As for the surnames. Although a Spanish surname is a great indicator of Iberian ancestry for the Hispanic countries of the Americas, it does not imply an equal amount of input from both races, especially for the nationals of Guatemala, Bolivia and Perú — particularly in regards to their contemporary racial classification systems*. Although in Hispanic America there was no systematic or decreed distribution of Spanish surnames for the natives, as opposed to the Philippines (see Catálogo Alfabético de Apellidos) — and only given names of Amerindians were Christianised (i.e. Spanish names like Pedro, Juan, Critóbal, María, etc.) — some Amerindians were indeed given Spanish surnames at baptism, although most were not. This is why Quispe (a Quechua surname) is Perú's most common surname (according to what you yourself have said) and not surprisingly since half the population is Amerindian. Amerindans had a system of indigenous surnames that were inheritable, where as Filipinos did not. In the instances where Filipinos did have surnames (indigenous or previosuly adopted Spanish ones), the inheritence was irregular, siblings had different surnames to both each other and their parents, thus making tax efforts and census taking difficult. This promted the surname decree.
(*) In the colonial era, someone who was half Amerindian and half Spanish was a mestizo. Someone of a quarter Spansih and three quaters Amerindian was a Cholo, or a quarter Amerindian and a three quarters Spanish was a castizo. Then you had the quinterones, sextarones, etc... The only three working classification in modern user are white, mestizo, and amerindian (that goes for all countries of Hispanic America).
Today, the people of a 50:50 ratio are still mestizos as in the colonial period, but all other people who would have fallen into other classifications (since they have fallen into disuse) go up one step to the next available classification still in use. Those who in the colonial era would have been classified as castizos today theoretically could fall into white or mestizo, depending on their identity. Practically, however, the vast majority chose white, and go up a step. Same with cholos, they may identify as mestizo or Amerindian, but the vast majority go up one and identify as mestizos. The norm is to move one step in the three terms that are available. Some may go one step down, but this is usually when economic situation has also been a factor of consideration).
As would be expected, anyone who has more Spanish than a castizo is just Spanish with no choice, and anyone with more blood than a cholo is Amerindian with no choice. Most Peruvians are either Amerindian or fall into the "more Amerindian than a Cholo" (and thus Amerindian), it is these people together that account for the 45% to 50% said to be Amerindian. Most of Perú's mestizos are also what would have been Cholos in the colonial era, and have chosen the one step up, but many in the mestizo category are in the colonial defention of 50:50. Most of Perú's whites are those that have more Spanish than an a castizo, but a vast proportion are also castizos that choose that one step up, rather than one step down. To add a bit more confusion, in Perú Cholo may be still used, but not as a discriptor of race ratio. It has changed to mean a "westernized" unmixed Amerindian, but that's a bit too complex for this simple example. Al-Andalus 04:02, 24 February 2006 (UTC).
[edit] Hello
Hi, if you are interested in adding to Peru-related articles you should check out Portal:Peru and Wikipedia:WikiProject Peru. Happy editing.--Jersey Devil 03:20, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] User Categorization
You were listed on the Wikipedia:Wikipedians/Peru page as living in or being associated with Peru. As part of the Wikipedia:User categorisation project, these lists are being replaced with user categories. If you would like to add yourself to the category that is replacing the page, please visit Category:Peruvian Wikipedians for instructions.
