Talk:Javan Rhinoceros

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	Javan Rhinoceros is part of WikiProject Indonesia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Indonesia and Indonesia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page. Please do not substitute this template. How you can help: Indonesia Notice board - Discussion board
Start	This article has been rated as start-Class on the quality scale.
Mid	This article has been rated as mid-importance on the importance scale.
Indonesian WikiProject • Indonesian notice board • Indonesian WikiPortal

[edit] Removed unsourced section

I removed the following recently added long and unsourced section from the text. Proper references should be provided before any of it is reinserted. See WP:NOR and WP:RS

It would be maybe correct to notice, that the regions in which the Javan Rhinoceros was used to live, have been subject not only to hunt for their horns and blood, at least in the regions stretching from Laos, down through Vietnam. Indeed, it is hardly possible, that the illegal hunters have brought the species on the verge of extinction (despite the expansion of the market of rhinos' horns and blood, following to the enrichment of a small part of the society in the Asian South-East, collaborating with the Colonial power - these people are always curiously attracted by implausible qualities of exotic and rare substances) if we mind to remember that the whole region has been ruthlessly subjected to a bloody and terrorist series of wars, beginning right after World War II and ending in the late '70s - in its operations as open warfare covered by media. We must not forget the millions of tons of poisonous chemical substances, explosives, napalm which the American army had dropped in the whole region - from Laos to Vietnam, and up to Cambodia - from early '60s to late '70s.

How many rhinoceros had died, in that war?

We are usually keen to forget, even about the human victims - let alone the animals' ones - that we just notice that the same jungles and plains inhabited by Vietnamese, Laotian and Cambodian people, were also inhabited by innumerable animals, as the people killed in terrible deaths of fire or pain, or slow agonies by poisoning and starvation amidst deserted lands. It is most likely that the endangered conditions of Rhinoceros sondaicus are due, not only to merchants of horns' dust, which is a phenomena which could account not, for it, since, of course, it is traditional medicine and thus it is going on since long time, and never had brought the rhinos near to extinction, but, mainly to the effects on the environment and to the killings caused by the Imperialist War of the United States dubbed usually Vietnam War. The fault of the near extinction of Javan Rhinoceros is to blame on the West, and on the Western people which left the war unleash its unerring violence. --Merbabu 00:31, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

Sorry, does this mean that someone else must already have made the connection between the dates, the numbers, and the regions? I mean, there is any need of reliable evidence to tell where the "Vietnam War" has been fought? And about it be a terrorist war, (meaning, as official Pentagon definition, conducted against the civilian population in order to achieve political or economical or social purposes) you can check on Noam Chomsky's American power and the New Mandarins (1968) Vintage, for example. But there is extensive bibliography about that. Wouldn't you agree if I tell, also, that by the late '30s extensive Colonial wars against the Movements of National Liberations have been fought in the same region, then WWII than Korea, then Cambodia, then Vietnam and Laos? This is, in my opinion, elementary history classes. For the relation with the population of rhinoceros, yet, I concede that no one of which I am acquainted has ever took a body count of animals, but, that cannot mean that there were no victims. Most likely, simply, no one ever cared to take a look or make the connection, but conflicts of such violence cannot really haven't provoked victims in the populations other than the human one.

The reasons for this connection to be gone unnoticed I do not know and I'm not interested in knowing it, it is just an observation, made on reliable and common knowledge sources (the Wikipedia article included). I do not believe it is original research, because no research has been involved in the writing of the paragraph.Protagora 01:40, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

thank you for your reply. I'm in a rush now so I will just make a few quick comments. Most (all??) of what you need to know about reliable sources and original research is in the links I gave you on this page and also on that welcome notice. As for the Vietnam War, no references for the dates for the war are not necessary (although I suggest they would be on the Vietnam War page), although citations for the connection made between the War and Rhino numbers would certainly be required. Otherwise, the assumption is that it is personal musings and original research. The guidelines on WP:NOR also state that there should be no synthesis of published ideas to form new ideas. All ideas must be published ideas. I am sure some of what you wrote you can reference. Hope that helps. regards --Merbabu 01:55, 30 December 2006 (UTC)