Talk:Japanese input methods

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	This article falls within the scope of WikiProject Writing systems, a WikiProject interested in improving the encyclopaedic coverage and content of articles relating to writing systems on Wikipedia. If you would like to help out, you are welcome to drop by the project page and/or leave a query at the project’s talk page.
???	This article has not yet been assigned a rating on the Project’s quality scale.
???	This article has not yet been assigned a rating on the Project’s importance scale.

Japanese input methods is part of WikiProject Japan, a project to improve all Japan-related articles. If you would like to help improve this and other Japan-related articles, please join the project. All interested editors are welcome.

Japan To-do: edit purge Improve to Featured status Japan Improve ASIMO Burakumin and Buraku Liberation League Takako Doi Chikamatsu Monzaemon Education in Japan Japanese architecture Japanese art Japanese robotics Japanese strategic planning for the Pacific (1905-1940) List of Emperors of Japan (transl. from ja) Emperor Yozei of Japan List of Japanese artists Namioka, Aomori Nihonjinron Sadako Ogata Ōishi Yoshio Politics of Japan Yagyu Shinkage-ryu Center Shiken (大学入試センター試験) More... Review First Sino-Japanese War Hinduism in Japan Inland Sea Kigo Narihira Santosen Temple Sazae-san Stroke order Heizo Takenaka Giovanni Battista Sidotti Requests See Requested articles Listed for deletion See this page, this page, and this page for lists. Grammar corrections Gaijin Takefuji Need images Every prefecture, see Subdivisions of Japan Sendai - Add demographic images More... Translate from Japanese Wikipedia Iemoto (家元) Blue Ribbon Award (Film) (ブルーリボン賞 (映画)) Gesaku (ja:戯作) More... Transliterations missing for Military ranks and insignia of the Japan Self-Defense Forces Wikify Ibaraki University Ikawa, Shizuoka Ima, Ai ni Yukimasu Japanese sculpture Mori Goro Organization of the Imperial Japanese Central China Army Organization of the Imperial Japanese North China Army Sangaria Shaken Takefuji Vote: Talk:Dokdo#Rename vote Watch this list — Edit this list

Contents 1 Keyboard differences 2 Help needed with Image:KB Japanese.svg 3 Accessibility of Japanese Input 4 Sophisticated IME

[edit] Keyboard differences

The recent edit summary said that "not all keyboards are the same". As far as I know, they are all the same, though; provide a reference for the differences: the "henkan" button etc. are the same on every Japanese keyboard I've seen. Also, the editor's mis-naming to "Japanese industrial standards" and the typos etc. don't inspire confidence. --DannyWilde 13:14, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

I spotted a bunch more errors in the edit; a lot of it was just wrong. Please be much more careful in future.

1. Sophisticated kana to kanji convertors, (known collectively as an input method editor, or IME), - wrong, IME is the name of a Microsoft product.

Please see Input Method Editor

I just looked at it again. What is your point? IME is the name of a Microsoft product, is it not? --DannyWilde 13:42, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Maybe, this line On the other hand, the term input method editor generally refers to the actual program that allows an input method to be used (for example MS New Pinyin, PRIME, or SCIM), or the actual editing area that allows the user to do the input. combined with the accepted usage at the top that IME is a simple abbreviation for Input Method Editor??

1. Also, some IME programs display a brief definition of each word in order to help the user choose the correct kanji in the case of unusual terms - wrong, they do this for everyday words.
2. If katakana is required, it is usually presented as an option along with the kanji choices. - wrong, the converters aren't clever enough to do that consistently. I doubt someone who writes this has much experience of typing Japanese.

Weird. Whenever I type anything, the katakana and romaji encodings are always listed at the end of the choices. Hiragana to katakana is not a difficult problem, so I don't see how the converter needs any extra cleverness.

I smile a little at this. Do you have to type Japanese a lot? "At the end of the choices"? Tee hee. --DannyWilde 13:47, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Mostly at work, and occasionally yahoo auctions, etc. I have to use Linux at work, and the IME on it is awful. I like Kotoeri (came with OSX on my iBook), and I consider the MS IME that I use occasionally at work to be somewhere in the middle. I know people who curse Kotoeri and install a 3rd party IME as soon as they get a new computer (the name slips my mind). So, it's a matter of preference. But the point is that while there can be a good deal of encylopedic information about Japanese input methods, I don't think that the specific information (like keyboard layout locations) is always useful. Neier 13:54, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

1. use arrow keys to scroll through - this is OK, but why delete "using the space key" - this is the usual method, is it not?
2. other symbols can be added by other buttons in the same way. Are there really such variations in these matters? I'd be interested in discussing this point further.

Yes. My Vodaphone starts AIUEO on 2, and KA, etc on 3. The 1 has punctuation, and the * has more.

Thanks for that clarification. --DannyWilde 13:47, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

1. Finally, a keyboard may have a special key to tell the OS that the last kana entered should not be converted to kanji. Sometimes this is just the Return key. This repeats something already stated. Further, it's the "enter" key as far as I know.

And, see the examples below for the Return/Enter debate.

http://www.pfu.fujitsu.com/hhkeyboard/kb_collection/images/xmint.gif (Xmint)

http://www.pfu.fujitsu.com/hhkeyboard/kb_collection/images/applekb2.gif (apple)

http://www.pfu.fujitsu.com/hhkeyboard/kb_collection/images/mb6880.gif (Hitachi)

That's just three examples, although to the best of my knowledge, no Apple keyboard has ever had a Henkan button. The JIS link is identical to the redlink on the Japanese Industrial Standard page. As for typos, that's why this is a collaboration. I meant to clarify the article, not to inspire or inflate anyone's confidence. Neier 13:32, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for these interesting references. --DannyWilde 13:47, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Given the above discussions, I restored your edit, although I can't understand what you mean in the second-from-top paragraph. Can you reread it and try to clarify if you have time? Excuse me for being paranoid. I recently had some highly unreliable editors editing some other pages I am involved in. --DannyWilde 14:00, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

I moved the paragraph into the keyboard section, where it makes a little more sense (hopefully). Regards. Neier 22:33, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Help needed with Image:KB Japanese.svg

I've created Image:KB Japanese.svg. It was based on a JPEG version by another user, which was also unfinished. Some feedback might help me to improve it. I don't know if it could/should then be used in this article. —StuartBrady (Talk) 11:45, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, would a katakana version be worth creating? (It shouldn't take me long.) —StuartBrady (Talk) 11:46, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

It looks good. I don't think that both a hiragana and a katakana version is necessary, but an example keyboard would be a welcome addition to the article. Please be sure to mention that it is just one of a number of various keyboard layouts (see a few different types above, or ja:JISキーボード or ja:新JIS配列 if you can read Japanese. The first Japanese link is nice, since it explicitly shows one set of diffs located on the right side of the keyboard). I don't know if I have ever seen a keyboard with the = sign above the 0 like your picture. Is it a windows laptop? Neier 12:46, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

It's not really my picture — it is an SVG version of another user's work. I'll use one of the layouts at ja:JISキーボード, but does it matter which one I use? (I can't read Japanese, so I'm deferring to those who can.) Thanks! —StuartBrady (Talk) 13:14, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

You know, since this article is talking about the input methods, the various punctuation marks, etc, aren't really important anyway. So, it doesn't matter to me which one — and, the original picture you posted is fine too. I would shy away from the style in the second Japanese link above; but, anything that illustrates the placement of the syllables would be great! Neier 13:37, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Accessibility of Japanese Input

I'm not sure if this subject is addressed anywhere (I wouldn't be surprised if it is), but I've yet to come across it. How do Japanese input methods functions as tools for say, the visually impaired? Particularly in reference to kana-kanji conversion, but also overall. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 150.208.204.39 (talk) 15:31, 26 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Sophisticated IME

"Sophisticated kana to kanji converters (known collectively as input method editors, or IME, after the name of the Microsoft product), allow conversion of multiple kana words into kanji at once, freeing the user from having to do a conversion at each stage. The user can convert at any stage of input by pressing the space bar or henkan button, and the converter attempts to guess the correct division of words."

Can someone name IME that do this? Is there such an IME available for linux? Some linkage/footnote at the bottom of the article would be most helpful. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 210.143.44.151 (talk • contribs).

Hmmm... This is what I got when I typed "korekarakatakanatohiragana,ryouhouwokakimasu" and hit the space bar once, on my linux box: これからカタカナと平仮名、両方を書きます. (ignore the probable bad grammar for this exercise) ;-) So, such a conversion obviously exists. I think kinput2 and cannaserver is what's installed here. Neier 06:18, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks alot. お世話様。I tried the same sentence (using the installed uim-anthy on my laptop) and the result was half hearted. The difference being: it asked about converting "korekara" and it left "hiragana" in hiragana without even asking about converting it to kanji. So I suppose canna has said sophistication while anthy has not. Hmm... I might do a little more investigating here.