Talk:Jamestown, Virginia

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[edit] Jamestown: Past tense?

I'm not confused. This article talks about Jamestown only in the past tense. Although this may be what most people are interested in, isn't Jamestown, VA still a contemporary town that one can visit? Also, what is the price

Jamestown is in the past-tense, unless one counts the state and federal parks that tourists visit. In the seventeenth century, Jamestown eventually came to become part of James City (usually spelled Cittie) in 1619. When Virginia was divided into counties in 1634, the area surrounding Jamestown and much of the former James Cittie became known as James City County. However, the actual town was eventually abandoned for various reasons (swampy geography, Bacon's fiery 'redecoration') and the county seat and capital of the colony was moved to became Middle Plantation/Williamsburg in 1699, and it reverted to farmland, even that no longer occupied by residents since the early 20th century. So, no James City or Jamestown, exists as a contemporary municipality, although the county still bears the name "James City County." Vaoverland
But isn't this supposed to be the earliest continually inhabited English town? So something must still be there. Even so, it would be nice to see a contemporary pic of what remins... Fig 12:31, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
No, It was the earliest so-called permanent (or successful) English settlement in North America, but I believe that there is no claim that Jamestown has been continuously occupied. the reality is that even the natives didn't want to occupy it when it was chosen by the settlers in 1607, and for logical reasons: environmental (see article for details). Perhaps it's a nice place to visit these days, but you still probably wouldn't want to live there, and no one does. However, about 25 miles east, the claim for oldest continuously occupied by English-speaking folks falls to Kecoughtan, Virginia, now in the City of Hampton, seized from the Native Americans by English under Sir Thomas Gates in 1610. Vaoverland 17:21, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] What happened in the 1700s?

We skip from the colonial era to the 19th century. Am I to believe that nothing happened for 100 years? MPS 14:14, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The site was pretty much abandoned during that period. A similar abandonment happened at Williamsburg after the capitol was moved to Richmond.Shsilver 19:55, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] dirt?

"Newport sailed back for London on the Susan Constant with a load of pyrite and dirt." - Is that vandalism? Why would they bring back dirt? To prove they were there? (clem 19:42, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC))

I don't think that is vandalism. Pyrite is of course, also known as "Fool's Gold". In addition to seeking riches, there was a lot of scientific interest back in England at the time, so the dirt also makes logical sense. Vaoverland
I recently learned that some of the dirt was discovered back in England contained an ore which was used to make iron. The colonists soon set about making iron, according to several websites about iron furnaces in Virginia. Vaoverland 19:52, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
They brought back unsifted earth, which contained what they hoped to be gold ore but turned out to be pyrite. In the very early going, though they were convinced that gold would be found, they didn't bring equipment for any meaningful mining. Instead, they just loaded the dirt onto the ships and sent it to London to be tested.Blackehart 19:19, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Resource

Somebody just added this link: [1]. It looks like the gutenberg book has a lot of information that would be very useful to incorporate as well as images. Just posting for my reference and anybody else who's interested in using this.--Bkwillwm 20:12, 27 November 2005 (UTC)IF

[edit] Stanley Plot?

Can anyone help with the following, noted in William Stanley (Elizabethan)?

[edit] First Marijuana Law

I have not verified this statement from [2]

  • Marijuana America's first marijuana law was enacted at Jamestown Colony, Virginia in 1619. It was a law "ordering" all farmers to grow Indian hempseed. marijuanna marijuanna weed smoker. Alchohol is really bad. Eav 20:31, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Making glass immedietely?

IIRC it was Polish and German colonists brought by John Smith in 1608 which started to make glass, and not that colonists started it making immedietely... Szopen 12:52, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Julian or Gregorian Dates?

Is the founding date '14th May 1607' reckoned by the Julian or Gregorian calendar? Those who set sail from London would have been using the Julian system because although the Gregorian calendar was imposed on many Catholic countries by Papal Bull in 1582, England (and its colonies in the eastern United States) did not adopt it until 1752.

Is the date as we refer to it today taken from the settlers' original documents? If so, wouldn't it have been reckoned by the Julian system? And does this mean the 'modern' date of founding is actually around the 25th May 1607?

(I now hesitate to post this, because further reading about the Julian/Gregorian differences at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gregorian_calendar and the additional complications noted at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Style_and_New_Style_dates has shown me that this is a very confusing area! But I'll take the plunge as a 'newbie' contributor here and see what the panel thinks ...) Elidorius 08:49, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Property Rights & Starvation

The Jamestown colony finally prospered after the British government sent Sir Thomas Dale to serve as the high marshall in 1611. The dramatic change imposed by Dale in 1614 was to eliminate the communal property system where the fruits of each individual's labor were either sent back to England or used to provide for the colony as a whole.

Dale gave each man in the colony three acres of land, required that each man work only a month to contribute to the colony treasury (and not during harvest or planting time), and imposed an anual tax of two and a half barrels of corn.

Private property, replacing communal property, yeilded greater output and turned the fortunes of the colony around. Before, where the colonists had emplored the native americans to sell them corn and had been looked down on by the native americans for their inability to grow corn, the native americans began to trade furs and other goods for the corn produced by the colonists.

This is breifly touched on the growth and development section of your article, but it fails to specifically mention the institution of private property as the act that saved the colony.

In 1618 the headright system was established, expanding upon Dale's ideas. Any colonist that paid his own way was granted 50 acres of land and another 50 acres of land for anyone else whose transportation he paid.

Source: Thomas J. DiLorenzo, How Capitalism Saved America Three Rivers Press, New York, 2004. Pages 53-57.

[edit] Vandalism

This page seems to have unusually high levels of vandalism - does anyone have any idea why? njan 21:53, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

  400th anniversary?

Vandals work in mysterious ways. --Shrieking Harpy......Talk|Count 19:55, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I KNOW WHY THERE ARE SO MANY VANDALS

this page has so many vandals because my friends and i are doing a project on jamestown and they like messing up the page

[edit] Indian relations

Please help improve this article or section by expanding it.
Further information might be found on the talk page or at requests for expansion.
This article has been tagged since January 2007.

Some information about early Indian relations would be informative. For example, the First Anglo–Powhatan War and Second Anglo–Powhatan War seem quite important. -- Beland 07:45, 28 November 2006 (UTC) Bold text

[edit] Vandalism

Don't worry, the vandalism should stop soon. The reason there were vandals was because there is a DAR competition based on Jamestown, but it's almost over now. I'm guessing since Wikipedia is popular website, people vandalize the Jamestown page so other people in the competition might give false info.


yeah, i know......i hated that thing...EVERY YEAR!!!!WHEN WILL THE MADNESS STOP!?!?

[edit] Revising the lead section

I am going to make a try at condensing the lead section, which is clearly too long. I am going to enter the existing lead section here, and let's talk about any portions which have been excluded which anyone thinks should go back in, rather than have a revert war. This may be helpful since this is a semi-protected article. Vaoverland 18:48, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Lead section text from January 7, 2007 follows (images removed)

Jamestown, or Jamestown Island, was founded in 1607 as the first permanent English settlement in North America.

Jamestown is on the James River in what is currently James City County, Virginia, about 40 miles (62 km) inland from the Atlantic Ocean and the entrance to the Chesapeake Bay and about 45 miles (70 km) downstream and southeast of Richmond, Virginia. Both the James River and the old settlement were named for King James I of England, who granted the private proprietorship to the competing Virginia Companies of London and Plymouth. The Virginia Company of London's enterprise, the Virginia Colony, which was first established at Jamestown, was the first permanent English colony in what is now the United States to survive.

The success of the Jamestown Settlement followed the failure of 18 earlier attempts including the Lost Colony of Roanoke Island to the south in what is now North Carolina. Jamestown is second only to St. Augustine, Florida as the oldest continuously occupied European settlement in the present-day United States, the latter having been founded 42 years earlier (1565) by Pedro Menéndez de Avilés of Spain. Santa Fe, New Mexico was also founded in 1607. After also suffering earlier failures, the successor to the Virginia Company of Plymouth successfully established settlements in Massachusetts and other parts of what became New England in 1620.

The location for Jamestown was selected primarily because it offered a deep water port adjacent to the land for a fort, important for a defensive position against other European forces which might approach by water. However, the swampy and isolated site was plagued by mosquitoes, brackish tidal river water unsuitable for drinking, and offered limited space for major expansion. Perhaps the best thing about it was that it was not inhabited by members of the Powhatan Confederacy, which was composed of the principal Algonquian-speaking Native American tribes that lived near Jamestown.

Starvation, hostile relations with the Powhatans, and lack of profitable exports all threatened the survival of Jamestown and the surrounding colony in the early years as the settlers and the Virginia Company of London each struggled. A low point was reached over the winter of 1609-10, and the following summer, the settlement was almost abandoned. However, one of the new arrivals of 1610, colonist John Rolfe, introduced and cultivated a sweeter strain of tobacco than the native variety, and it was successfully exported in 1612. Soon, the financial outlook for the colony became more favorable. Important changes by the Company's owners in London which became effective in 1619 attracted additional investments for the proprietary company, also sowing the first seeds of democracy in the process with a locally-elected body which became the House of Burgesses. However, the King was reluctant to lose either power or future financial potential. In 1624, the company lost its charter and Virginia became a royal colony.

Throughout the 17th century, Jamestown was the capital of the Virginia Colony. To many, the names were synonymous. Gradually, other less important points emerged along the James River as the colony grew. Since the economy was primarily agricultural, in the early period, other than Jamestown, most developments were large plantations rather than traditional towns, usually located near the waterways such as the James River, and many had their own wharfs. However, by 1619, the newly-formed House of Burgesses ordered that each county establish a principal town which would have warehouses for both imports and exports, and some concentrated housing. Much future growth would pass Jamestown by.

Several times during contingencies, such as fires and Bacon's Rebellion in 1676, the seat of government for the colony was shifted temporarily to nearby Middle Plantation, a fortified location on the high ridge approximately equidistant from the James and York Rivers on the Virginia Peninsula. When the Colony was finally granted a long-desired charter for a college in 1693, Middle Plantation was chosen as the site of the new College of William and Mary, named for the British king and queen who granted the royal charter.

After another accidental state house fire at Jamestown in 1698, the capital of the Colony was permanently relocated to Middle Plantation in 1699. The new capital town was soon renamed Williamsburg, in honor of the current British king, William III.

After the capital was relocated, Jamestown began a gradual loss of prominence and eventually reverted to a few large farms. It again became a significant point for control of the James River during the American Civil War (1861-1865), and then slid back into seeming oblivion until the early 20th century.

Renewed interest in the historical aspects began early in the 20th century as the 300th anniversary of the founding of Jamestown approached. As a celebration was planned, the general area of Jamestown was considered unsuitable, as it was not very accessible in the day of rail travel before automobiles were common. Thus, the Jamestown Exposition was held in 1907 about 30 miles downstream in Norfolk County, near the mouth of the James River at Sewell's Point on Hampton Roads, a site accessible by both long-distance passenger railroads and local streetcar service, with considerable frontage on the harbor of Hampton Roads, which proved ideal for the naval delegations which came from points all around the world. The Exposition site later formed the first portion of the large U.S. Naval Station Norfolk in 1918 during World War I.

However, with improved roads and transportation, the 350th anniversary celebration was held at Jamestown itself in 1957. Although erosion had cut off the land bridge between Jamestown Island and the mainland, the isthmus was restored and new access provided by the completion of the National Park Service's Colonial Parkway which led to Williamsburg and Yorktown, the other two portions of Colonial Virginia's Historic Triangle. Major projects such as the Jamestown Festival Park were developed by non-profit, state and federal agencies, as well as improvements of state highways. Queen Elizabeth II of Great Britain and Prince Phillip attended. The 1957 event was considered a great success, and tourism became continuous, and attractions have been enhanced and updated.

The two major attractions at Jamestown are separate, but complementary to each other. The state-sponsored Jamestown Settlement near the entrance to Jamestown Island includes a recreated English Fort and Native American Village, as well as extensive indoor and outdoor displays featuring three popular replica ships. On Jamestown Island itself, the National Park Service operates Historic Jamestowne. Over a million artifacts have been recovered from the ongoing archaeological work, including a number of exciting recent discoveries. Several monuments and a loop road around the island are also popular attractions. The Colonial Parkway provides access directly to these, as well as State Route 31, which extends to nearby Williamsburg, as well as crossing the free Jamestown Ferry to areas south of the James River.

Early in the 21st century, archaeological work and discoveries generated a great deal of new interest. In preparation for the upcoming Jamestown 2007 event commemorating America's 400th Anniversary, new accommodations, transportation facilities and attractions were planned. The celebration began in the Spring of 2006 with the sailing of a new replica Godspeed to six major East Coast cities, where several hundred thousand people viewed it. Major corporate sponsors of Jamestown 2007 include Norfolk Southern Corporation, Verizon Communications, and Anheuser-Busch. Queen Elizabeth II of Great Britain and Prince Phillip have announced intentions to pay another state visit to Jamestown in May 2007. (end)

OK, I have made a substantial condensation of the lead, taking care as best I can to be sure that any content was preserved in the various sections which follow. I added an image from 1957, since Queen Elizabeth II and Prince phillip have announced they will return in May 2007. It seems more balanced, Opinions, anyone? Vaoverland 19:52, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
Just a note here. I've revised the wording in the lead phrasing to say that Jamestown was the first successful English colony "in the New World, following 18 previous failed attempts", in place of your "in what would become the United States...". If you want to use the statistic of 18 failed attempts, that total includes failures in Nova Scotia, Gibraltar, North Africa, the Carribean, etc. as well as many that weren't truly attempts at colonization, rather just explorations. The only failed English attempts prior to Jamestown within the current U.S. boundaries, were Roanoke and Sagahadoc(Maine). Blackehart 00:04, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hundreds

The claim that dividing the land into "hundreds" refers to the number of settlers expected to inhabit that portion is incorrect. A "hundred" is an ancient term for a division of an English county i.e. Chiltern Hundreds, and the term came from that usage - see reference in the article Riddley 11:56, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Comments about Jamestown and the Indians

Jamestown is a good place, a lot had happened there.Many people got sick there, because of the nasty desises that has been spreaded from the swamp. the colonists dranked and bathed in the swamp.The bugs lived in the swamps too. That's main reason why they got sick.They starved, because they didn't know how to farm.Later,the Indians showed the colonist how to farm their food. They soon stared farming and needed more room. They took the Indian's land without permission.This started a war between the Jamestown settlers and Indians.

Note: The above comments were added by an unregistered user. I have moved them down here, not to censor, but rather, to include properly. To the contributor who added them, you have made good points. Please consider registering as a user and joining us in improving and learning. Mark in Historic Triangle Vaoverland 23:36, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Poles?

Have you something more about Poles, the first Polish settlers in America, the 1st Polish-Americans, in Jamestown? Kowalmistrz 16:22, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Johann Theodor de Bry (1528 – 1598)

How is Johann Theodor de Bry (1528 – 1598) supposed to have made a woodcut of the Indian massacre of 1622? --Ibn Battuta 02:41, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

Good catch. I did a little digging around, and it looks like this image was from a 1628 edition produced by de Bry's workshop. The image itself was made by Matthaeus Merian. This site has some info on it. Thanks for pointing this out. I completely missed this when I labeled the image.--Bkwillwm 01:02, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
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