Talk:James Wilson

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[edit] Anyone find this a bit too POV?

It doesn't appear to be from a late 19th Cen. EB, but it sure reads like one. How do we all feel about trimming it back a bit? I'm sure he's fascinating, but I think the prose might be a bit too elevated (and I still suspect either an uncredited pd source or else a copyvio, though I can't prove it). Jwrosenzweig 23:38, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Edit by Christopher M. Vanderwall-Brown

Well for one, James Wilson was a key founding father; most people just don't have a clue who he is. Secondly, had it not been for, it was either Franklin Roosevelt or Theodore, anyhow, they were so enthralled with the legacy that was James Wilson he was moved from his simple burial ground, and given the horror he deserved with his fellow framers. I myself am a seventh generation descendent of Wilson. I don't deny he had an incredible ambition about him. His infamy is another thing I cannot deny. He on many occasions would have to flee his home, first from the British, and then from the Americans themselves, after his plan to move people west fell through, and thus defaulting on all his loans. I believe he escaped to Virginia or Ohio, that part was a little sketchy, it's been a few years since I've read the law review or talked to my father who is the real family expert on Wilson. In any case, he was one of the most important founding father, most if you are considering the constitution, for as the law review explicitly states, (written by Roosevelt himself) that Wilson's ideas were key to the framing of the country in which we now live. Had it not been for Wilson, America would have looked dramatically different. Also, it's interesting to note, there are at least a few descendents floating around from his seven children. We are few in number, vast in infa my, and decisive in purpose. Most of the key information about Wilson that I know comes from said law review, Wilson never wrote much over the course of his own life, he instead focused on the legacy he would leave behind to a nation, and to his own children. Also, around the time most founding father’s were doing the majority of their writing Wilson was either evading the law be it the Red Coats or American Blues. Washington on several occasions was required to save his life from Red Coasts and bankers trying to exact their revenge. And no, it is not POV, it is merely honesty. If you have a problem with the truth then that's fine, be that way. America was founded on those ideals and will not be changed just because someone has a problem with that. It's called a democratic republic, ruled by the people not by dictators sir; therefore I feel shortening the truth is uncalled for. In addition, if you wish to shorten Wilson, then we must in turn shorten the entirety of the framers of our constitution. Finally, did you ever think that someone besides yourself could be a good writer? I don't know you, I'm just honestly replying to a random post, but I've read the limited material in existence about Wilson, there honestly is a vast lack of information about him, possibly due to Wilson or the family's efforts to conceal the embarrassment of his life. My father was the first person to actually hear the story of his entire family, curious family member A. tells curious family member B. all about it. But what I'm trying to point out is, is it not possibly the author spent a long time writing this, in addition, that said person might in fact be a college professor or a very well educated person? I may be a freshman in college, but I am not a dunce. If anything Wilson gave us sir, it happened to be brains. Something you perhaps are lacking in great degrees for complaining about length and openly accusing someone of a crime you have no valid proof exists on a public website. We live in a free society and country sir, and free speech is protected, however, the Supreme Court does not consider slander to be a lawful form of said speech. (Dragoon91786 09:19, 5 April 2006 (UTC))

-Christopher M. Vanderwall-Brown —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dragoon91786 (talk • contribs) 16:41, 19 March 2006.

[edit] NPOV

This is article has an icnredible NPOV problem. It should be totally rewritten. It hurts to have an article like this in wikipedia.<<Coburn_Pharr>> 21:13, 16 March 2006 (UTC)

As I pointed out above this is not POV...this is truth, therefore your comments are invalid. You just have a problem with honesty. Try reading a book on Wilson and you might learn a thing or two. Might I suggest Wilson's own works or perhaps the law review I suggested, you can contact the Library of Congress, there are a few copies lying around. I was fortunatly able to get ahold on one of the last copies, WSU has one, however I'm not sure who else. Well, the Library of Congress does, but depenting on the state you live in, it might difficult to get your hands on. In any case, as I have noted before, before you call an artical verbose and unimportant, remember, this is perhaps the only public record of any complete nature availible to the public, without a vast supply of travel. So unless you can cite, and I repeat cite specific examples of inaccuracies, please refrain from commenting slander, or random faulsifications. Thank you. The intention of this website is in acordance with the pantheon of ideals that the halls of learning in any good civilization possess. Therefore, I highly suspect you truly have no real concept of what you are talking about. But this is a free country, so besides defending the page, there is nothing else I can possibly due. (Dragoon91786 09:19, 5 April 2006 (UTC))

Oh, just in case someone has some less than ideal comments they wish to make about my connection to Wilson, and the possibility of bias as a result, be assured, I do not deny being a six/seventh generation descendent of Wilson. However, I am fully willing to discuss in full detail to the best of my ability all of his less than illustrious deviations in life. Therefore, in so doing, I am not bias. I know the man was brash, egotistical, and in many cases, a complete wash when it came to common sense, he had big dreams and even bigger achievements. But the one thing you can say for Wilson was he knew his stuff. He may have been a fool at times, possibly a megalomaniac, but hey, I admit a bit of it runs in the family, but I do believe in all my heart, he had the best intentions for this nation, and albeit the road to hell is paved with good intentions, without them, we would not have this glorious nation we live in today. (Dragoon91786 10:28, 5 April 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Neutrality, Clarify tags

I made a few changes to the article (take a glance at the page history) and I removed the clarify and neutrality tags. The article seems okay now but if someone finds something confusing or not conforming to the NPOV, go ahead and put those tags back up if you wish. --Sparkhurst 04:09, 19 June 2006 (UTC) This is the part that is, as far as I know, innacurate

"During the Continental Congress of 1776, he largely stood by fellow Pennsylvania delegate John Dickinson in opposing independence only to reverse his position in the final vote, barely tipping Pennsylvania in favor of Independence and granting the resolution the unanimity required to pass"

This is mis-information directly taken from the portrayal of Wilson in 1776. The truth is that he was NOT pivotal in the unanimity fight and he was strongly for independance. He did NOT reverse his decision in the final vote and tip anything. If you have information contrary to this, it desperately needs a citation, especially in light of the fact that this paragraph appears to be taken from the fictional musical.

I feel sad about the crap that this article has gone through. Does this happen to the Ben Franklin one? :)

(He and Wilson were great friends- in fact, Franklin referred to him as "the burly, surly Scot")

I hope you don't mind but I've moved your stuff down here (I'm a bit of a neat freak). From the ushistory.org website, "He was, however, in a bind. Pennsylvania was divided on the issue of separation, and Wilson refused to vote against the will of his constituents. Many members felt that it was hypocritical to have argued so forcefully and so long for Independence, only to vote against it when the occasion came. Wilson, with the support of three other members who were sympathetic to his position, managed a delay of three weeks, so that he could consult with people back home. When the vote came, he was able to affirm Pennsylvania's wish for Independence." I guess the section needs to be revised. --Sparkhurst 04:57, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

I don't mind at all, and I think what you wrote fit in much better with the article than what I did. I was just trying to get that part out there....it was late! Thanks for revising the section. Maria

No problem. If you feel anything else sounds a little off, please bring attention to it. Regarding the Ben Franklin article, it is usually limited to senseless vandalism. Inaccuracies such as what was presented in this article wouldn't stand a chance since a lot of people watch the Franklin article. Since the amount of people watching this article pales in comparison to the amount watching Franklin's article, inaccuracies stand a better chance of going unnoticed. --Sparkhurst 03:40, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Thanks guys for updating the page. I'm really happy to see someone actually note the fact My ancestor was locked up in prision...-heh heh- They forget about these sorts of things in History. I finally found that law review written in 1905 in the Philidelphia Law Review on the Wilson Doctrine and Wilson the Patriot. Yes, he was a major proponent of Independence. However, I found it strange that the review spoke that Wilson was elected within the first two months to the "Commitee of Five, and was repordedly the Chairman of that Commitee. I'll include the additional information I have from Wilson into this when I get a chance to reread it. Also, there are only two-three copies of this review in existance seeing how very little has been written on Wilson at all. I'll make sure to bring this up so others can see it. I'm not sure about copyright in regards to Law Reviews, but if it's legal I could put it up somewhere so others can read it. It's very interesting. Anyhow, thanks guys. (Oh, and I have one of the only copies in existance (A photocopy but still a legitamate copy). Thanks for the effort, I really appreciate others taking the time to help make the Legacy of Wilson more known. -Christopher M. Vanderwall-Brown-