Talk:James Barry (surgeon)
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[edit] Pope Joan?
Perhaps a reference to Pope Joan is in place? // Liftarn
- Naaaah, it's not relevant. Besides, historians believe Pope Joan was a myth, but James barry was a real person. Kevyn 13:31, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Move to James Barry (surgeon)
Would anyone object if I moved James Barry (woman) to James Barry (surgeon)?
On the disambig page for James Barry, this person is listed as a surgeon, and according to this article, "Barry was accepted into the Edinburgh University as a 'literary and medical student' in 1809 and qualified with a Medical Doctorate in 1812. " So Barry legitimately was a surgeon - and quite a good one, too, according to the article.
Yes, I know the fact that Barry was physically female may very well be what made Barry notable, but disambiguating Barry by physical gender, instead of profession, makes me a little queasy. It strikes me as a little demeaning.
I do not presume to know Barry's motivations for passing as a man - be it in order to become a surgeon in a time when women could not become one, or if Barry was what we today would call a transgender male - but Barry clearly was not interested in identifying as a woman, and as such, I think we should respect the good doctor's wishes.
In short, I suspect that James Barry would probably rather be remembered as a surgeon than as a woman.
Kevyn 00:23, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)
- OK, seeing as there were no objections, I have moved the page. Kevyn 13:28, 23 Aug 2004 (UTC)
[edit] Gender
It is by no means established that Barry was a woman. From the new Dictionary of Canadian Biography bio,
- After the physician’s death in 1865 rumours, apparently begun by his charwoman, circulated in London that James Barry was a woman, and the story, reinforced by undoubted physical peculiarities in size and voice, was disseminated widely in the press. It has been believed then and since, but recent research shows room for doubt. More likely seems the suggestion, elaborating one made 80 years ago in the medical journal Lancet, that Barry was a male hermaphrodite who had feminine breast development and external genitalia. Barry’s personal life must have been difficult in any case, though he accomplished much in his medical career." (by User:Fawcett5, unsigned)
- You can include the claims and speculation to the contrary - and their source - to the article. And I'd recommend that you sign your comments - Skysmith 09:18, 13 May 2005 (UTC)
- I've included one such source (external PDF link), though I'm not the one to judge one way or the other. DavidDouthitt (Talk) 09:46, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Plagarism?
I found an identical copy of this article at http://experts.about.com/e/j/ja/James_Barry_(surgeon).htm (at least prior to my editing on it). No attribution to Wikipedia is present - after reading this talk page, it appears that the Wikipedia entry was copied word for word (and picture for picture) without attribution. DavidDouthitt (Talk) 09:46, 17 January 2006 (UTC)
- It's a wikipedia mirror. TastyCakes 17:22, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
[edit] PoV issue?
I recently read an article which was carried in Edinburgh's main evening paper, Edinburgh Evening News, and also a weekly, the Edinburgh Herald and Post, available here, which takes a pretty radically different view to the one in this Wikipedia article. These articles make (cited) claims that some senior bodies in the Edinburgh medical profession want to recognise the achievements of someone they very definitely class as a woman in disguise. It's a good enough reference to make some substantial comments about whether Barry was in fact simply a woman trying to get on in a man's world, and not a hermaphrodite as is implied by the present WP article. I don't want to make sweeping changes without some discussion here first, but it seems like the article needs a very substantial re-write to better allow for the fact that the details are questionable. – Kieran T (talk) 14:17, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
- There is also the fact that we don't know if Barry considered her/himself to be a man or not. Some female wartime crossdressers, such as Albert Cashier, seem to regard themselves as men, and would no doubt identify as transgender in today's society, but most cross-dressed simply out of neccessity. It simply isn't clear if Barry identified as a man or a woman. There article assumes that Barry identified as a man and refers to him/her as by male pronouns, but we can't know for certain. Asarelah 22:35, 27 March 2007 (UTC)
