Talk:Jacques de Molay

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Contents 1 Use of name 2 Clean up article 3 Torture 4 Pædophilia 5 Drivel

[edit] Use of name

His full name is Jacques de Molay, which means "Jacques from Molay". Thus one cannot use his alleged "surname" alone in a sentence, as it would e.g. translate from "de Molay went to France in 1306" into "from Molay went to France in 1306". Therefore I sometimes use only "Jacques". Does anyone know the correct way to use names like these? cun 23:12, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

I see no reason to create such a rule. Plenty of surnames mean things in some original language, but as surnames they become proper nouns (or noun phrases). Hence it's perfectly proper to treat this name grammatically just the same as you'd treat Jacques Smith. Durova 22:02, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Clean up article

This article badly needs a good editor. Are there any medieval scholars out there who can do justice to this important historical figure?

How come? Do you have any examples? cun 11:35, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

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I agree to that. many parts of the article is apparently biased, made-up bs. Examples following

Downfall:

"It was common knowledge that de Molay planned on corrupting Catherine of Valois' male children by tending to their sorrows, then by engaging in acts of anal rape."

"Philip knew the dangers that de Molay represented; his own sons were nearly sexually molested by de Molay. Upon escaping the vile pervert, they confessed to Philip what de Molay had tried to do."

Myths:

"It is said that Jacques de Molay cursed Philippe le Bel and his descent from his execution pyre, a curse which was responded to by Philip shouting in defiance "Fuck de Molay!""

"It has been speculated that several of the boys whom de Molay had corrupted had grown to enjoy the perversions of the homosexual lifestyle introduced to them"

Legacy:

"Members are encouraged to model their conduct after his example of loyalty and fidelity instead of the homosexual perversions that de Molay was guilty of himself."

...

"vile pervert", "homosexual perversions", sheesh... Could someone SANE please clean up this article?

What are you talking about? These sentences are not in the article as we speak. They were removed days ago cun 21:02, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Right you are, now everything seems normal. Maybe a link in the "knights templar" article links to an older version - will find out which.

[edit] Torture

Surprisingly I found no references that the use of torture was widely used to force many templars, like Jacques de Molay himself to confess. User:Mistico

[edit] Pædophilia

I find it interesting that the rumours in the articles merely stay described as rumours... and not explicited.

Particularly interesting, since to this day, the rumours (and sometimes clear cut evidence) continues through modern orders... these days particularly the Socialist parties in Europe and the Grand Lodge of the Orient, ironically enough, in France\Belgium; the current hypermarket of paedophilia in the world. Go figure...

References? Lern2spell too, by the way. 211.30.71.59 12:07, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Drivel

de Molay failed to successfully lead the Templars through the inquisitions made against them and was burnt at the stake on an island in the river Seine in Paris, Ile de la Cité, on 18 March 1314.

How .. does one 'successfully' let alone 'lead' a group of people through 'the inquisitions', given that every inquisition had already, per history, made it's mind up before commencement of torture and eventual execution? Kind of oxymoronical to say he 'failed' at it. Did anyone succeed?  :) 211.30.71.59 12:06, 27 January 2007 (UTC)