Talk:Jacob's Ladder (film)

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[edit] Spoilers, Related Films.

If you can make a connection between this film, The Sixth Sense, and the Others, then I think Donnie Darko is another one worth mentioning.

I haven't seen the film (yet), but the connection to The Sixth Sense and The Others is a potential spoiler in itself. Perhaps it should be moved to the spoiler section. Cnwb 00:45, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)
It absolutley is a spoiler, and so is mentioning that it has a surprise ending. That should be said at the very end. "Watch out for the surprise" ending!" within the first paragraph, really. — Slike | Talk | 03:52, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I've also removed referances to the other films, as giving away their surprise endings to someone who is only expecting spoilers for this movie isn't very nice. — Slike | Talk | 04:13, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
One of the biggest spoilers of all is in the opening paragraph, where it says that the plot is a variation of "Occurrence at Owl Creek Bridge." Moving the offending line. -Mance 11:59, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
In reply to the original poster, not all movie's that are related need to be mentioned, I believe we can all make some sort of connection between every horror film. --Neur0X 05:08, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Is 'The Ladder' BZ?

Spoiler warning: Plot and/or ending details follow.

I've moved this from my talk page, since it seems wrong not to have the discussion here where other people can contribute. To summarise: I don't think the film claims that 'The Ladder' is literally and specifically the same drug as BZ. If 'The Ladder' even exists in the film outside Singer's imagination, it's a fictional drug whose testing on Vietnam soldiers mirrors the claimed testing of BZ in real life. Therefore, I don't think the depiction of its effects can unambiguously be described as inaccurate - no one ever said the two drugs were the same. garik 14:59, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

The following was in response to my edits of 30 July 2006:

I'm sorry, but they do say, in the end of the movie, that 'The Ladder' was in fact BZ, and     
BZ is in fact 3-quinuclidinyl benzilate, so, im reverting some of your edits.
Quoted from the movie:
 It was reported that the hallucinogenic
 BZ was used in experiments on
 soldiers during the Vietnam war.
 The Pentagon denied the story.
Oh. and if the drug was entirely fictional they wouldn't have mentioned that in the end of the   
movie.
--Neur0X 
.talk 23:57, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

: But the quote you give does not state explicitly that 'The Ladder' (fictional) was in fact
BZ (real).  The 3-quinuclidinyl benzilate article also notes that "the film does not discuss 
BZ specifically".
It's arguable, I suppose, that the makers are implying that 'The Ladder' = BZ.  In which case, 
they're either ignorant of the effects of BZ or are deliberately misrepresenting them.  However, I 
see no strong reason to assume such a literal interpretation.  It seems much more reasonable to 
assume that the mention of BZ at the end of the film is to show that the idea of experimental 
drugs being tested on Vietnam soldiers was not entirely fictional, even if the specific drug   
in the film was.  
Besides, the fact they don't mention BZ by name anywhere else suggests to me that the ladder is 
not specifically BZ.  It's the actual testing of experimental drugs on soldiers that crosses the 
fact-fiction boundary, not the specific drug.
Unless you can find better evidence for 'The Ladder'=BZ, then I think 'inaccurate' is the wrong 
word for the Jacob's Ladder article. garik 00:54, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

I've made changes. Having watched the film yet again, I think we should make clear that the bulk of the film is not necessarily a result of any drug. Also, I've tried to make clear the ambiguity of the drug in the film. We don't even know if there was such a thing (though there probably was): he only finds out about it in what turns out to be a hallucination! This is especially important considering the significance of the name "The Ladder" to his predicament: he's effectively on a ladder between this world and the next. And I'm sorry, but as I've stated above, we do not know for sure that "The Ladder" is literally the same drug as BZ. garik 11:29, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

I'd have to agree that the mention of BZ was solely for dramatic effect — to bring it all together. There is no reasonable indication that the movie was supposed to be about BZ. However, I'd say that in the fictional world that this movie presents, we are probably supposed to assume that the character who relates the details of The Ladder to Jacob is the spirit of an actual dead scientist, or a helpful angel, or both, or some other entity that is otherwise relating actual information to him in an attempt to help him into heaven. The movie is less interesting if we are to believe that it's all just random hallucination. The tagline sort of tells us that this is a real battle for his soul and not drug-induced hallucination. --The Yar 03:45, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that's much what I thought - I was just being a bit cautious above! garik 09:11, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

This was added today:

* A scene in which was written but never included in the final cut where ash form the popular evil 
dead series visits jacob and tells him he defeated demons too and went back to when events happened 
like in jacobs ladder. Jacob then stares at him and yells 'you demons get out of my way' then walks 
off. Also when jacobs wife jezebel turns into the monster when she stares at him and he throws her 
there was a big fight scene then she was supposed to carry jacob in the pits of hell and yell jacobs 
took the ladder then the movie ended.

If it's to be included it needs to be rewritten rather more coherently. The first bit sounds very dubious in any case. garik 23:04, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Marriage of Heaven and Hell

Surely some mention should be made of the obvious inluence of Blake's work on this film, from his etching of the same name to the entire message of TMoHaH.

[edit] Trivia section removed.

I removed the trivia section from this article. Some of the grammar was tortured. I started to fix it, but then I realized most of the statements had virtually no relation to the topic of the article. Why are heavy metal bands and video games being mentioned in an article about a movie? Re-add the trivia (if you must) to their respective pages.

If the trivia section is put back in, please do the following:

  • Correct the grammar.
  • Provide sources for the statements. Absolutely no references were provided for any of the statements made.
  • Provide a compelling reason to list every band that makes use of a three second sample from this movie.
  • Provide a compelling reason to dedicate several paragraphs to a video game that was influenced by this movie. Alternatively, create a separate "Media influenced by Jacob's Ladder" category in the article.

If the trivia section must return, please provide sources! If you don't, then I'll either tag it with (fact) or delete it again. NinjaRobotPirate 16:36, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

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