Talk:Jack Johnson (boxer)

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Contents

[edit] some facts are wrong

  • his record is Won 83(52 ko's) Loss 14 Drawn 11 Total 126
  • his first pro fight was 2-1-1894 a knock out win over John Lee
  • no mention of the connection between the FBI and Johnson's title loss...?

[edit] Ali Fan

This guy really was amazing boxer, but is all this information accurate? Also, what are his records (longest bout, fastest bout, ext.)? Great intro but where is the information?

Unfortunatly Johnson's record, as were most boxers of the era, not very well kept considering the fact boxing was an illegal sport for much of the early late 1800's and early 1900's. A good source is the Cyber Boxing Zone at www.cyberboxingzone.com/boxing/jjohn.htm. I hope this helps. 64.12.116.139 00:29, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Spy text

There appears to be information here that has no business being here. There appears to be corrupted text in the middle of the document, or at least, misleading information. I thought Jack Johnson was a boxer, not a spy in France. 208.17.215.244 15:08, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC) Pungent Boxer refuses to take on English Contender fined £250 pounds I suppose this never existed either I can prover that it did If you dont believe me I'll see you in the USA Embasy Ballsbridge I suppose Jack Johnson refused to take on the British Heavy weight Because O'Neill from Myshall was far better?????

Indeed. I've commented out the mangled part, so at least it looks okay. But still, someone who knows anything about Jack Johnson should fix or remove that. It's been taken to reference desk. grendel|khan 07:19, 2004 Dec 29 (UTC)

[edit] Disambig?

Why can't we have this article at Jack Johnson (boxer) and then make Jack Johnson into a dis-ambiguation page?? 66.32.145.143 01:03, 23 May 2004 (UTC)

I would argue that this situation warrants a "Primary topic" disambiguation:
  • "if one meaning is clearly predominant, it remains at [for example] "Mercury", the general title. The top of the article provides a link to the other meanings, or if there are a large number, to a page named "Mercury (disambiguation)". For example: the page Rome has a link at the top to a page named "Rome (disambiguation)" which lists other cities named Rome. The page Cream has a link to the page Cream (band) at the top."
from Disambig#Types of disambiguation
Hyacinth 02:44, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Between what?

In 1912 Freemans Journal Dublin Ireland Heavyweight Andrew O'Neill of DMP Police beat British Army Heavyweight, Was DMP Heavy weight and beat RIC Heavy weight. Sir Nevill Chamberlaine Head of RIC invited Jack Johnson to Dublin for a funding of a new Stadium South Circular Road Dublin. The Sparing took place between Johnson and O'Neill in the Theatre Royal Dublin, this was un-official. Jack Johnson joined the French Army in 1914 and did work for the Allies below is correct and I can prove it in the USA Embasy in Ballsbridge Dublin if you dont beleive me. Over

  • "Somewhere between this time period Jack Johnson was accused of being a pungent boxer who refused to take on English contender and fined £200. This was depicted in Dublin Newspaper Freemans Journal."

Between has to refer to two things. --Gbleem 02:14, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Conviction

I see nothing in this article or Mann Act to indicate that Johnson was fairly convicted, and I propose that the section header be changed from "Unfairly convicted?" to either "Unfairly convicted" or "Movement to overturn conviction" (or, to push, "Movement to overturn unfair conviction"). Hyacinth 02:40, 19 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I solved this problem by simply collapsing it into the legacy section, since it's still relevant and doesn't warrant an entire section. One sentence has no business being an entire section in any case (use subheads sparingly and one sentence paragraphs). If it is expanded into several paragraphs, it can be split off later. --Lexor|Talk 11:39, Jan 20, 2005 (UTC)


[edit] Titanic Claim

Regarding the last paragraph in the Early Life section claiming Johnson was denied passage on the Titanic in 1912 while attempting to flee the country however it's my understanding that Johnson did not flee the country until June 1913. Although as the Titanic sank before arriving in New York considering he wasn't arrested for violation of the Mann Act until October 1912, several months after the sinking of the Titanic, it seems a moot point. Also John was married three times however I don't believe he had any children. 205.188.116.200 05:17, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

its an unture story, but its probably worth mentioning since songs were written about it MechBrowman 23:40, Apr 17, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] quote

Is there documentation for the quote "We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts."? I think that ought to have more proof, because it seems pretty nonsensical. Apol0gies 17:20, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

The quotation comes from Al Stump's article "The rowdy reign of the Black avenger", True: The Man's Magazine Jan 1963. It is given as an example of Johnson's sense of humour. This publication is not a scholarly source and Stump does not give a reference other than citing "one reporter". He does make it clear that Johnson was referring only to himself, not to Blacks in general. The quote as originally given in this article is slightly wrong; it should read "jellied eels", not "cold eels". I have amended accordingly. Mikedash 11:40, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Etta Duryea?

There is a mention of Johnson being buried next to her, but she's not mentioned anywhere else in the text. --Grain king 02:41, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

She was his wife - she died 11 months into their marriage, supposedly a suicide. Some have speculated ther emay have been more to it than that, on the - to me flimsy - grounds that the method she chose (shooting herself in the head) is unusual for female suicides. Mikedash 11:28, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Victor McLaglen

This article claims that Johnson beat McLaglen...but the McLaglen article claims it was a no-contest bout with no winner. Anyone know which it was? 70.60.149.226

Geoffrey Ward's recent Johnson biography, which is reputable and referenced, says Johnson won the fight, but from the context it seems that there was no knock out. Ward, Unforgivable Blackness (London: Pimlico 2006) pp.139-40. The McLaglen article says the fight was a "No contest" bout, which meant it could be won only by a knockout, not on points or the referee's decision. Ward does not mention this, but if it's correct his account of the fight would imply it should have been ruled a "No contest". Various internet boxing sources either don't list the fight, probably on the grounds that a six-round contest does not count as a heavyweight title defence, or show the result as "no decision" or "no contest". See for example a response to a reader's query on the Boxing News site. On balance it seems that "no decision" was the outcome of this fight, the only one in which Johnson was matched against a future Oscar-winning actor. Mikedash 11:43, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
OK. That was some welcome information. Thank you. In light of the context of the fight, should the article to be changed to reflect this rather than plainly stating the Johnson beat McLaglen? 70.60.152.14
Be my guest. Mikedash 20:05, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
OK. I tried to adjust accordingly. Please feel free to revise if you feel that my wording wasn't precise enough. 70.60.152.14 07:15, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

The reason the McLaglen fight is not listed on some records such as BoxRec's, is that newspaper research has determined that it is an exhibition, and not a legitimate fight, or no-decision bout for that matter. It has been mislabeled as a professional bout in various sources, and like with many errors that appear in published record books, it persists because people continue to borrow from older sources in compiling records, and don't verify everything that is included.--Matt1978 19:48, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] picture

Would this photo be good to use? http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/D?ils:3:./temp/~pp_BHjf::

[edit] Bare-knuckle

Did Jack Johnson ever fight as a bare-knuckle boxer during is career? LindaWarheads 09:25, 12 September 2006 (UTC)


Trouble with this sentence.... "The camera was stopped just as Johnson was finishing off Burns so that nobody could actually see Johnson becoming the champion." It has been more successfully argued that the filming continued but later edited/destroyed before the critical point in question.

[edit] Riot Inaccuracy

"His victory sparked race riots among his black fans and certain states banned the filming of Johnson's victories over white fighters."

This phrase implies that African Americans started race riots after witnessing Jack Johnson's victory. According to the PBS documentary on Jack Johnson, the violence in these riots were perpetrated primarily by white street gangs. An African American man beating a white man in anything, including sports involving physical prowess, was controversial at that time in racist America. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Aalston (talk • contribs) 01:55, 11 December 2006 (UTC).

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