Talk:J. J. Redick

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from VfD:

"J.J. Redick (born June 24, 1984, in Cookeville, Tennessee as Jonathan Clay Redick) is a collegiate Men's basketball player in the NCAA. He attended Cave Spring High School in Roanoke, Virginia, where he was selected as the recepient Virginia's 2002 Mr. Basketball award and was a McDonald's All-American." He does not seem too notable. --Ld 22:20, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Comment I might have been wrong in my initial assessment. There seems to be a lot of links on Google including a marijuana incident--Ld 00:24, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

This player is Co-Captain of a collegiate basketball team that has been a consistent Top 10 finisher in national rankings by the Associated Press (including this year), and has seen great success as one of the offensive stalworts on a team that went to the Final Four (semi-finals) of the most publicized NCAA athletic tournament of the calendar year (March Madness 2004). The player is also on pace to set a record for highest free throw percentage in college basketball history, spanning over 100 years of competition. He was the recipient of prestigious awards during his high school career, that only are given to a miniscule percentage of basketball players in the high school system of the United States. I strongly believe that the article should remain. -- Scott R. 23:25, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

  • Keep new article. Great rewrite!! - Lucky 6.9 00:13, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep with applause. Samaritan 00:52, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep new article. Gwimpey 05:01, Dec 21, 2004 (UTC)
  • Well now, keep, of course. —[[User:Radman1|RaD Man (talk)]] 07:21, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep this new article. [[User:GRider|GRider\talk]] 16:55, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
  • Keep, as much as it pains me. For the record, I'm speaking as a Wikipedian, not as a student at another ACC school. :) --PacknCanes 18:15, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

definitely keep Xpendersx 14:00, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)

end moved discussion

There appears to be dispute about JJ's birthplace. usabasketball.com sites Cookeville, TN as his birthplace and espn.com has Roanoke -- his undisputed "hometown" -- as his birthplace. I tend to think that unless a random wikipedian made up Cookeville and it was propagated across the internet, that is probably the right answer and ESPN is probably just confused.

I would go with USA Basketball. ESPN's sources are all second-hand at best.

ESPN interviewed Redick recently and confirmed that he was alive when his family moved from Cookeville to Roanoke, so Roanoke is definitely NOT his birthplace. UnnotableWorldFigure 16:43, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] Poetry

Are all of those poems necessary? Maybe an example of one could be included, but I think the mere mention that Reddick had poems published in SI would be sufficient. BMetts 00:21, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

I removed the poems until can be shown that JJ has released them as public domain; it's possible that even Sports Illustrated has rights to them. If it is shown they are PD, some excerpts are enough; just because Shakespeare's works are PD now doesn't mean his sonnets are on his article.

The poetry should not be up there, period. 10 years from now, no one will care, and for now it is only relevant when people want ammunition to make fun of Redick and Duke.


As I decide to fulfill my life's strategy The devil insists on trying to battle me I meet him in an empty field on the high plains

He throws temptations my way to inflict internal pain

Life and death matters, this ain't no game I t's mind over matter, the power of my brain He thinks I'll give in if my muscles start to strain He believes I'll submit to the evil of society's frame And benefit from notoriety's gain He says I don't have to properly train and that he'll give me all the fame and everyone will know my name But I think he's insane 'Cause I know the truth- to gain is to give To have pain is to live So I call on my heavenly Father's name And slowly watch the thunder and rain subside I'm finally able to push the temptations aside I went blow for blow, I went face to face Now the devil knows, I'm able to escape Not by a back door or an alternate route I saw the middle high ground and I ran right through

[edit] Marijuana

If someone would like to add an NPOV, sourced discussion of the pot incident, I think it would be a welcome addition to the article. However, I will continue to delete any biased nonsense on the subject. --djrobgordon 06:01, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Conversely, I don't believe it's acceptable to delete all mention of the incident. An anonymous user deleted an external link to a story in the Duke University paper about the subject. I'm going to put this link back in. If the objection is to the specific source, rather than to the story in general, I'd suggest the editor find a story from AP, ESPN, etc. and link that instead. Actually, if the only objection is the source, leave me a note here and I'd be happen to find another myself. I've been watching this article for less than 24 hours, and I've already had to revert the edits of four separate people. For now I'm trying to follow Wikipedia:Assume good faith. --djrobgordon 01:16, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fan's Reaction

My gut tells me to kill this section, but I've been reverting so much vandalism and bias on this page lately that it's possible I'm being reactionary. I don't doubt the truth of the content. I found a source on the female fans (a Boston Globe article) and I could probably find one concerning the Maryland fans. My problem is that none of this seems notable to me. The essence of this section is that Duke fans love him and opponents' fans hate him. How is that different from any other star player in a team sport? If this is notable, we should add a section to Michael Jordan saying that he was booed at away games (yes, that would violate WP:POINT; no, I'm not actually advocating it). Is hatred of Redick really so far above that of other star players that it's become encyclopedic? Anyone want to convince me to keep this section? --djrobgordon 05:45, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

I have to disagree partially with this move. It certainly is difficult to quantify how hated he is. I agree with that. However, certain incidents like the incident at Maryland are relevant because it's so rare. How many players have incited a reaction like that? Perhaps a there could be a compromise if people are still uncomfortable with placing that kind of info here with the compromise being a Wikipedia site dedicated to Maryland Terrapin Basketball fans. You could write a book about their behavior. :) 144.126.161.43 03:20, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
I was at the ACC tournament last year and it might be fair to say, without hyperbole, that this is the most hated player EVER in college basketball. If there was some way to quantify the average level of hate per fan, and the number of fans who know who he is, it would be an interesting note to include on the site. However I agree that it is stupid to pick out a couple incidents like "F U JJ chants" and one guy holding up a sign about his sister.
One thought I have is that there is a section in Art Chansky's book, "Blue Blood" that discusses how Duke went to Charlotte for the first two rounds of the NCAA tournament in 2005 and commented that the program as a whole was suddenly on the receiving end of an unprecedented level of hatred from fans and even the community. If someone were to incorporate mention of that and articles like that from the web it might be worth posting on the site. And there is NO question that while the Duke program is hated as a whole, Redick is THE epicenter of the hatred.
I think what I'm going to do is take out the section as of now, with the understanding that I'll actively look for any sources that confirm fan hatred of Redick is of notable proportions. In terms of this section, I'd like to adhere closely to the third policy point of WP:V: The obligation to provide a reputable source lies with the editors wishing to include the material, not on those seeking to remove it. --djrobgordon 07:41, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
Also, I think the info from the book you mentioned would make a good addition to the athletics section of Duke University. --djrobgordon 07:44, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
Speak of the devil. ESPN.com just published a story this morning with the headline: "The Most Hated Player in America." I'll see what I can take from it. --djrobgordon 17:19, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
I've posted some thoughts on this below, under a fresh header. Basically, opposing fan reaction is notable in Redick's extremely case. StarryEyes 12:08, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Scoring - 30pt discrepancy

At least one person is systematically stealing 30 pts from JJ's point total every time he does an edit. I assume this is because espn.com is guilty of the same infraction. JJ did NOT sit out the ACC title game vs NC State in 2003 -- rather he was the hero of the game with a 30 point performance.

ESPN's error is just bizarre. I've attached a link to his player card with a warning explaining the discrepancy. Hopefully that'll deter future such action. StarryEyes 23:29, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

(removed "alumni/alumnus note") - Looks like we're probably in the clear on JJ's point total. At this point I would be *amazed* if somebody came in and took 30 points away from him considering how much press his total is getting. UnnotableWorldFigure 08:54, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

Recently edited in a discrepancy to Redick's breaking of Dickie Hemric's record, stating rule variation in era of play, but perhaps a disgruntled Duke fan has taken it out. The fact that Dickie didn't play with a 3-point line, no matter how many he took or didn't take, makes his era of basketball a lot different from Redick's. J.J.'s career stats show 424 three-pointers (checked with ESPN to validate that). If you hypothesize that he would've shot those as two-point jump shots, his total falls somewhere in the 2,100-2,200 range. I didn't bother to take the time to calculate fouls off 3balls, but surely this would have at least a minor effect on that total, as well.

I removed it. The three-point line is here to stay -- the record books going forward are not based on what the rules of basketball were in the 1950s. We could get into all sorts of debates over rules of basketball, level of competition, number of games played, etc. Would you rather have the same debate on every page about any player that sets a scoring record, or just move it offline to another page that discusses how the game has evolved? UnnotableWorldFigure 09:08, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Appeal to include opposing fan reaction

Duke fans love him--that's nothing new, and so blatantly obvious that it's not worth mention. ("Fans love their team's superstar player" - some headline, huh?) However, I do think the opposing fans' reaction to Redick is notable and worthy of inclusion. Never, in a lifetime of watching sports, have I seen a player inspire such virulent hatred from opposing fans who wasn't either a violent criminal, a dirty thug who injured one of that team's players in deliberate contact, or a former player for that team who parted under bitter circumstances. Beyond the mere fact that he's a household-name superstar on one of the country's premier programs who is fawned over by the national sports media (particularly the eminently irritating Dick Vitale), there are three obvious reasons for this: (1) When playing, he has a cocky aspect of manner. (2) He seems not to notice any invective hurled at him, so opposing fans try harder and harder to come up with some egregiously offensive way to perturb him. (3) This is a rather touchy subject, so I'll put it as tactfully as possible: he looks like a "normal guy", maybe the kid who sits in the back of your Sociology class or something. People think he has no business being on a basketball court because he doesn't look the part. He looks just like they do, which further fuels their resentment. If he looked more like the conventional American basketball superstar, shall we politely say, people wouldn't hate him nearly as much.

If it's media you want, just check out these articles: ESPN - Stop hating on J.J. Redick! (mentions the infamous "sister sign"), MSN - 13 reasons Redick deserves respect (discusses in detail the hatred JJ faces), and you'll find many more from less visible outlets via Google.

Anyway, that's just my opinion. I do think it's worthy of a paragraph or two towards the end of the article. What do other people think? StarryEyes 12:08, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

I wrote the note above re: Blue Blood. I think it is notable -- he is clearly the most hated player in college basketball, although interestingly enough, this might be LESS true than it was a year ago. UnnotableWorldFigure 08:50, 22 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cleanup?

Well, the career came to a sad end for those of us who were not among the "haters". I've gone ahead and added up all the figures and done the bookkeeping for what Redick did and didn't accomplish in college in terms of individual statistics (his team statistics are not particularly interesting as Duke 2003-06 did not really distinguish themselves as much more or less accomplished than the previous 6 Duke teams). The last thing to wait for (in the next few days) is the result of the Wooden and Naismith awards, but that won't interfere much with the rest of the article. There is a lot of redundancy in the article -- do any of the OCD types out there wanna clean it up? I'd attempt to clean the article up but I'm sure it would still look bad when I got done with it. UnnotableWorldFigure 08:59, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Something isn't right

where is he from tennesee or virginia. if it is both we should make sure to show when he moved or why. CBPRS 12:43, 29 March 2006(UTC)


'a truely wonderful person'??? damn, i think somebody should add a citation about that--Amdamen 02:45, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The DUI area

I said "The Jim Rome Show" because that is where I heard of the charge, and there was no internet source at the time I heard it. The time was 12:10 EST. Soxrock 16:17, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removed protest

I heard that you removed my article on some rumors that JJ Redick might be gay. Why did you do this? Falconleaf 02:01, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm not the one who removed it, but I imagine it was done because the rumors were not backed up by verifiable, non-trivial sources. --djrobgordon 03:32, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
I removed it for that very reason. You used a blog entry, http://underscorebleach.net/jotsheet/2005/03/dick-vitale-and-jj-redick, to back up your claims. The entry itself contains no discussion on Redick's sexual orientation, and even if it did, it wouldn't be a suitable source. I'm assuming your evidence is to be found somewhere in the blog entry's comments, which certainly aren't suitable evidence. Punctured Bicycle 19:28, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

[1] I googled "JJ Redick and gay" in the same search bar, and came across this article that may bring back the gay rumors of JJ Redick back.

[edit] Alleged Homosexuality

There have been a lot of rumors linking the basketball player with popular homosexual singer Clay Aiken and a steamy off-shore boating incident in the Gulf of Mexico. Can someone find a link and put it up? Thanks

It is impossible to find a link about this from a reliable source because it is a rumor initiated by the many J.J. haters. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.60.255.224 (talk) 07:20, 24 December 2006 (UTC).

[edit] Removed Section

I removed a paragraph from the "Legal Issues" section:

In November of 2006, it was revealed that Redick performed oral sex on an unidentified 14-year old male in the back of a white van in his home town of Cookeville, TN while. Charges by the boys family were dropped. It is suspected the Redick's lawyer negotiated a private settlement.

This is a blatant violation of WP:BLP. If this is true, you need to SOURCE IT! PTO 02:30, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NBA Career

Just thought I'd leave an explanation, since I just cut about two thirds of this section. Everything I took out was either amateur analysis without citations (original research) or playground insults. I realize the section's too short now, but better to have too little information than biased opinion. --djrobgordon 05:29, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Citations

I just finished sourcing anything resembling a debatable point in this article, mainly so that I can get rid of unsourced additions without getting into an argument about how Redick's Naismith Award isn't sourced either. Now there's a standard to hold new additions to. Quoth WP:CITE: All negative material about living persons must be sourced to a reliable source. Do not wait for another editor to request a source. If you find unsourced or poorly sourced negative material about a living person — whether in an article or on a talk page — remove it immediately! Do not leave it in the article and ask for a source. Do not move it to the talk page.

And by the way, I'm a Michigan fan, so please don't accuse me of being a Dukie apologist. --djrobgordon 23:17, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

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