Talk:J. D. Salinger

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.
Portal:Biography
 Biography Portal
B This article has been rated as B-Class on the Project's quality scale. [FAQ]
(If you rated the article, please give a short summary at comments to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses.)
J. D. Salinger was a good article candidate, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. Once the objections listed below are addressed, the article can be renominated. You may also seek a review of the decision if you feel there was a mistake.

Date of review: 20:57, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] discussion

Colleen told Margaret that she and Salinger were trying to have a child. Though, this is pretty sick because he is 88 and she is 48. I hope that this does not set a bad example for kids today

What the heck? who put that there?

This article says that he died with a stripper named Sonny--I don't think that this is true.

Streetlight Manifesto, a ska/punk band, mentions Salinger in their song "Here's to Life" from the album "Everything Went Numb." They talk about his disappearance from the public life and the expectations people may have had for him to continue. It is an interesting fact that should be added to his profile to show what other artists think of him. Gryffinchan

The article contains very little of his early life, and this would be useful information for those wishing to analyze his works with the biographical aspects as a backdrop. - andrew

When did he die?

Z (He lives!) GangofOne 03:05, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Is there any backup for the assertion that he continued to write novels?

Margaret Salinger's memoir (p. 307)

Were the letters published? or the stories, for that matter? my understanding was that the letters were protected under copyright and that therefore the author of the book about Salinger had to paraphrase, and that was where the matter last stood. I'm looking to see if that decision was overturned.

...

What I'm finding indicates that the decision was not overturned, for that to have happened, it would have had to go before the Supreme Court and did not. So the result is that while you may own a letter from, say, John Irving, Irving owns the language in it; if you wish to discuss it without his permission you have to paraphrase. Argh, some fair use that is.

The privacy-obsessed should note that while Salinger was concerned about these old letters which showed how he was 40 or 50 years ago, an unintended side effect of Salinger's suit (intended to protect his privacy) was that a lot of detail of Salinger's current and very much private life became irrevocably public (his testimony, and everyone else's, was transribed and made available in print to anyone at all who wanted a look). Some of that info included that he had written at least two novels and several stories. Anyway, but so to see those letters, eh? Some of them were to Hemingway....

Rather interesting discussion here, for anyone interested. --KQ

This article needs editing. It is badly written and repetitive in places, and some of the "facts" I am dubious about. Hayford Peirce 20:09, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

It is now August 2006. Please list current doubtable facts. --GangofOne 18:58, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Matt Salinger

An anon user doubted the article's claim that Matt Salinger is the son of JD Salinger. I don't personally know whether that claim is correct or not, but various source seem to substantiate the claim:

If someone has evidence that the claim is false, please post it. In the mean time, I've removed the anon user's comment. Neilc 18:36, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I'm afraid I don't have any proof to post, but Margaret Salinger (his daughter) says that Matt Salinger is his son in her memoirs. Mhtbhm 10:39, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Margaret Salinger says on p. 399 that her brother is an actor.Winfrankmcnet 22:47, 27 September 2006 (UTC)


J.D. Salinger's son Matthew was born in February 1960, says John Wenke in J.D. Salinger: A Study of The Short Fiction. drone5 20:52, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

I believe "In Search of J.D. Salinger" reports J.D. Salinger attending a public theatrical performance of Matt Salinger's. Probably not a coincidence. Ribonucleic 05:24, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Uneditable

The page is uneditable and needs Finding Forrester as a link. Cokehabit 20:14, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The truth is out there!

This Salinger guy was a FBI operative agent and wrote the book for the agency's purposes. Why is this not mentioned?

Uh, where did you get this from? Please don't say stuff like that without backing yourself up. --Gs68 20:33, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Please see the movie Conspiracy Theory and read about Mark David Chapman (or was it someone else?) if you wish to understand the previous comment. --GangofOne 04:51, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

And John Hinckley, Jr. according to the Catcher in the Rye article. -- GangofOne 05:11, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Section on Seclusion is confusing

The second sentence starts: "This event was triggered by the publicity generated from an interview..."

What "event" is being referred to? The book becoming famous? The paragraph is not clear.


i feel it is talkin about his becomin less social

[edit] "Five books??"

Salinger's four books are: The Catcher in the Rye, Nine Stories, Franny and Zooey, and Raise High the Roof Beam, Carpenters/Seymour: An Introduction.

The Wonderful Town anthology should not be included.

That book does contain Salinger's story "Slight Rebellion Off Madison", in which the Holden Caulfield character makes an early appearance.

"Slight Rebellion" had been an uncollected story; until recently, it was available only in the New Yorker. Its presence in a book is indeed a significant literary event.

None of this, however, alters the fact that Wonderful Town is not a book published by J.D. Salinger. drone5 20:35, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Scientology?

Salinger is listed in the category Former Scientologists‬ if utrue remove that category --Melaen 18:57, 28 November 2005 (UTC)

True, according to Margaret Salinger's book, although it was called Dienetics at the time.
Please sign your posts. The only mention of Scientology in the article is this line:

Salinger tried Dianetics (later called Scientology), even meeting L. Ron Hubbard himself...

That doesn't necessarily mean that Salinger became a member of Scientology. Unless more valid information is forthcoming, calling Salinger a "former Scientologist" is misleading. Otherwise, the category could be applied to nearly anyone who read Dianetics and tried to follow whatever it proposes. Alcarillo 15:47, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ursinus College

A number of months ago, the article read thus:

While attending Ursinus College in Collegeville, Pennsylvania, Salinger was called "the worst English student in the history of the College" by one of his professors. Many years after his success with Catcher he wrote a letter to Ursinus asking consideration for a relative of his for admittance to the College. That hand-signed letter still hangs in the Admissions Office. (The dorm that he resided in still exists today and can be visited by prospective and current students. Ursinus does not openly brag about Salinger's time there but will not shy away from questions during a campus tour.)

Now only the first sentence remains. Is the rest of this paragraph untrue, or was it removed by accident or a vandal? Jon Hart 04:03, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

'His revulsion led to an engagement with his girlfriend, whom he rarely spoke to as an adult.' I'm not getting this.

[edit] Importer

This article says his father was a meat importer, but the following source says he was a cheese importer. http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/catcher/context.html A little confused here. Could someone clarify?

Margaret S. , p33, "Polish meats and other high-end foods." --GangofOne 05:13, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Several Years Ago"

WTF? Just when did this alleged canceled book deal occur? 24.8.183.231

Yes, this is rather loose language 195.93.21.40 14:53, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unhelpful parenthetical remarks

There are a number of remarks in parenthesis in this article that seem to have a tone innappropriate for an encyclopedia and don't provide any new information. For example:

...he felt he could not stand the reality of children again (as opposed to the fantasy children in his writings)
Colleen told Margaret that she and her father were trying to get pregnant. (M. Salinger 108) (Presumably, he will not have long to raise a child.)

If I don't seen any objections here in the next few days, I'll go ahead and remove them. mennonot 15:20, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] First Wife Sylvia

Sources I've read (i.e In Search of J.D. Salinger by Ian Hamilton) say the first wife was French and he met her there. Here it states she was a low-level German Official. Someone is mixing fact and fiction, as Sergeant X in "For Esme- with Love and Squalor" arrests a female low level Nazi operative. This may be confused because rumor has it that Sergeant X is in fact auto-biographical, such as Buddy Glass. Nonetheless, Salinger did not marry a Nazi official, just a French girl. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TerraLibris (talk • contribs).

[edit] His wife and the draft

As someone has already noted, Salinger's first wife was not a low-level Nazi official, she was a French doctor.

Also, Salinger was not drafted into the army. He actively sought out a post. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.199.56.245 (talk • contribs).

List your sources. Part of the problem here is that the two biographers did not have their subject's cooperation. That Salinger did not cooperate with his daughter Margaret is one of the explicit themes of her book. It is unfortunate that fact-checking with the subject himself could not be done. Margeret mocks Ian Hamilton in a couple places for inaccuracy. Anyway, on page 43 of M. Salinger: "In the spring of 1942, Jerome David Salinger was drafted into the United States army.", but how does she know, she wasn't conceived yet. Just because he was drafted does not imply he wasn't enthusiastic about it. About Sylvia, page 71, Margaret confirms she was "some sort of a doctor". Margaret's aunt said '"She was very German"'. Margaret's mother said, "... she hated Jews as much as he [JD] hated Nazis..." It does not say she was French, although an official in the Vichy government might be considered a Nazi official, maybe. Margaret says Sylvia went back to "Europe", no particular country mentioned. Pending further information, the account by Margaret's aunt, who actually met Sylvia, seems to be the most believable. --GangofOne 18:58, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] MLA style.

Just in case anyone cares, the parenthitical citation in this article is done very poorly. Overall the grammar is pretty poor. Periods go aftera citation, and never within or before.

Barbaric.

I believe this is wrong. Periods always go inside of quotation marks, even if they do not appear in the original quote. And I'm not even sure what is meant by a period going "before" a citation. 58.69.85.101 15:01, 18 October 2006 (UTC) Luke Crowley

These aren't hard and fast rules. Different styles follow different traditions. Wikipedia's Manual of Style states:
When punctuating quoted passages, include the punctuation mark inside the quotation marks only if the sense of the punctuation mark is part of the quotation ("logical" quotations). When using "scare quotes" to indicate a phrase used ironically, the comma or period always goes outside. Double quotation marks belong at the beginning of each paragraph in a quotation of multiple paragraphs, though at the end of only the last paragraph. --Siobhan Hansa 19:05, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Putting words in his mouth

Recently was added:

"Asked in July 1951 by his friend and New Yorker editor William Maxwell in Book of the Month Club News about his literary influences said A writer, when he's asked to discuss his craft, ought to get up and call out in a loud voice just the names of the writers he loves. I love Kafka, Flaubert, Tolstoy, Chekhov, Dostoevsky, Proust, O'Casey, Rilke, Lorca, Keats, Rimbaud, Burns, E.Bronte, Jane Austen, Henry James, Blake, Coleridge. I won't name any living writers. I don't think it's right."

Then it got changed to:

"Asked in July 1951 by his friend and New Yorker editor William Maxwell in Book of the Month Club News about his literary influences said A writer, when he's asked to discuss his craft, ought to get up and call out in a loud voice just the names of the writers he loves. I love Franz Kafka, Gustave Flaubert, LeoTolstoy, Anton Chekhov, Fyodor Dostoevsky, Marcel Proust, SeanO'Casey, Rainer MariaRilke, Federico Garcia Lorca, John Keats, Arthur Rimbaud, Robert Burns, Emily Bronte, Jane Austen, Henry James, William)Blake, Samuel Taylor Coleridge. I won't name any living writers. I don't think it's right."

He probably didn't say both things. A direct quote must remain as is. What should be used is the [[Henry James|James]] construction. --GangofOne 05:57, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I'll fix it. This quote isn't cited and a google search reveals a Spanish Language blog and a screenplay, so I question its veracity, but will leave it with a citation needed tag. The Talking Sock talk contribs 21:03, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

A source for the quotation is Al Silverman, ed., The Book of the Month: Sixty Years of Books in American Life (Boston: Little, Brown, 1986), pp. 129-130. This is a compilation of reviews, author profiles, etc., that originally appeared in the Book-of-the-Month Club News. The first version of the quotation above follows the text of the Silverman book.167.7.39.182 22:21, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Theodore McArdle

Next to the story "Ted", is this name: 'Theodore McArdle'. Is this just a graffito? --GangofOne 20:56, 5 August 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Good Article nomination has failed

The Good article nomination for J. D. Salinger has failed. Here are some comments:

This article is not very well written. The prose is tough to read, grammatically flawed in places, and hard to understand in places.
I have no problem with the citations though there could be more. Two were missing and had "citation needed" tags. I was able to find sources by doing a simple google search. This could be done in other places where in line citation is lacking.
I think there is good information in this article, the content does not need to be drastically improved. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Talkstosocks (talk • contribs) --Bender235 01:50, 15 August 2006 (UTC).

[edit] For Esme - With Love and Squalor

In the article, "For Esme - With Love and Squalor" is not listed as a Glass family story. However, Sgt. X and Seymour Glass have many similarities (they're both married, love children, and have had a mostly untreated breakdown). Is Sgt. X Seymour? Caesar 03:44, 22 August 2006 (UTC)


After some thought, I've changed my mind. Sergeant X was definately not Seymour, as he begins the road to recovery with the help of Esme and her watch. Seymour never does recover from his PSTD, and ends up taking his own life.

Caesar.

[edit] Protege in Marlow, NH

I removed part of the Later years section (diff[1]) because, without a reliable source it seems to violate our policy on biographies of living people. It seemed like an oddly written bit in any case - why no name for this published author neighbor? Anyone know what this is refering to? Any sources? --SiobhanHansa 17:27, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] On going vandalism

With all the minor vandalism we get on this page, sometimes changes sneak in and get covered by newer edits. I just found this [2] change snuck in an unsourced claim low down the page that had been being reverted many time per WP:BLP. People (like me) didn't notice it and then reverted newer vandalism and nonsense. A couple of other little changes got in there too. I've tried to get us back to what I think was our last good edit with newer good changes incorporated. I apologise if I deleted a good edit by mistake, or kept a bad a one. I'm going to ask for the page to be semi-protected. --Siobhan Hansa 16:11, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Affair vs relationship

I changed affair to relationship here for two reasons. Firstly, to me anyway and somewhat supported by wiki, affair implies there was some improprietry. While Salinger's apparent fetish for young adult women may seem strange (and I'm sure the fact that they weren't married might have been a bit scandalous in those days), there doesn't seem to have been anything illicit about their relationship. As far as I can tell, neither of them were in married or in a commited relationship at the time and they weren't working together. They were just 2 consenting adults in a perhaps a bit strange, but still a relationship. The fact that she lived with him also suggests it wasn't really an affair but more of a relationship. Finally, Salinger apparently broke up with her because she wanted kids but he didn't. Again, to me anyway this sounds like it was a more of a serious relationship then an affair Nil Einne 10:40, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Joyce Maynard changes

I made several more changes here relating to the auction of the letters. I removed the comment "Echoing a widely shared reaction to Maynard's flouting of Salinger's craving for privacy, a New Yorker cartoon". Firstly it was unsourced. Remember Maynard is a living person so the principles of BLP apply. While I suspect the New Yorker cartoon is true, there is no evidence whatsoever it was a widely shared reaction. To Salinger fans perhaps but what about to others? Also, IMHO there is no need for the comment. Just say there was controversy. And mention the details. Let the reader decide whether Maynard was money grabbing or being unfair based on the evidence no need to bring up silly comparisons (incidently at least Maynard didn't keep her dress :-P) Nil Einne 11:21, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Incidently, perhaps this should be added "And, although Maynard owned the letters and was able to sell them, Salinger won a court case to make sure their contents may not be published." if it's true. It's from the CNN article we cite. However I can't help wondering if it's not true and in fact there was no court case about these letters. Presemuably the earlier court case set the precedent however so there would be no need for a new court case. So if someone can find a source that makes it clear, i.e. 'that the letters could not be published in their original form (but could be published paraphrased) because of the earlier court case'; that would be goodNil Einne 11:26, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Partially conflicting info

The intro states:

but amid the ensuing publicity, Salinger quickly withdrew from the arrangement

Later in the article it states:

However, the date was pushed back a number of times, the last time to 2002. It was not published and no new date has been set

In one case, it's claimed he withdrew. In the other case, it mentions the date was pushed back but doesn't say anything about him having withdrawn from the arrangement. These are partially conflicting and someone who know's what the deal is should correct preferbly with references. If it's still not clear whether the deal is still on then just say so. Coincidentally, the Hapworth 16, 1924 article doesn't have any details at all about the deal and it probably should Nil Einne 11:32, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Irish mother?

Salinger's mother was half Irish and half Scottish. So why is Salinger down as Irish-American and not Scots- or British-American as well? 86.17.247.135 02:08, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Continued to Write?

The question was posed about the source of information for that trivia item. those trivia items source the questionable book Dream Catcher, or have no source listed. the trivia section seems like it might be more of a rumor section. it should be clarified, further sourced, or rewritten to be clearer. Youdontsmellbad 06:23, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dwelling

I removed the following

Salinger later moved to the more rural Marlow, New Hampshire, keeping his Cornish residence as a diversion to the ever increasing numbers of intruders.{{fact}}

from the article. The information was added in this edit, which seemed questionable. A resident of Marlow also contacted me on my talk page here and despite the confrontational attitude, may indicate this is questionable. I was also unable to verify via google. Thoughts? --TeaDrinker 08:14, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

Margaret Salinger's book says he moved, read it if you care where. Doesn't seem important to this article. Give the guy a break. He may still own the Cornish place, I don't know. GangofOne 08:16, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] removed claim that he was "worst English Student ever"

It said: (refering to Ursinus) "While there, Salinger was called "the worst English student in the history of the College" by one of his professors. ref http://referaty.atlas.sk/cudzie-jazyky/anglictina/22902/jerome-david-salinger:-biography ref . This claim was in the article a long time ago, something a hish-schooler might make up. (Who keeps track of the worst?) Now it has a "reference", but that reference is to a webpage that is merely a partial rewrite of an earlier version of this very article, a quick read will tell you. Therefore, ... excised. I been away from Wikipedia for 3 months, the article has been much improved in that time,.. except for that dangling hemorrhoid of a "Trivia" section. First of all, it is very un-Zen to prejudge experience, or label it. Just present the facts, let the reader experience/responded in uncontrolled way. And some of those mentioned are hardly trivial. The fact that he continued to write is an extremely interesting fact, and that Margaret is witness to the vaults with the unpublished manuscripts. Upon his death don't you see the coming media-frenzy-of-the-moment, with the prospect of new Salinger to be published? (Margaret indicates that the intention is to publish.) Half a life time of new Salinger novels all at once? I say we better get this article in shape for the big moment, when the traffic to this aritcle will peak. Also, the fact that his cats are Kitty1, Kitty2, and Kitty3 is not trivial, it only appears trivial. It ties in with his ideas of not premolding experience, not naming things for children (unless they ask first); Margaret alludes to this when she mentiones it. I forget where in the oeuvre these ideas appear, somewhere in the Seymour stuff. GangofOne 08:16, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia Section

Is there really any benefit in having an extremely incomplete catalog of pop-culture references to Salinger and/or Catcher in the Rye? It's not as if it would even be possible (or desired) to catch all of them, so should this list be purged to improve the quality of the overall article? Jmdustin 21:49, 12 February 2007 (UTC)


I agree with Jmdustin. Maybe create a separate article of cultural references to Salinger (like the one created for Ella Fitzgerald; as is, many of these "pop-culture references" refer to Salinger's work and not even to the author specifically. These are the only pieces of trivia worth keeping, imo (and even they could be incorporated into earlier sections of the article):

  • Salinger is also the father of actor Matt Salinger, Margaret's brother, most famous for starring in a direct-to-video version of Captain America.
  • In 2002, 80 letters from writers, critics and fans to Mr. Salinger were published in the book Letters to J. D. Salinger, edited by Chris Kubica.
  • Salinger has continued to write in a disciplined fashion, a few hours every morning. Salinger has several floor-to-ceiling safes containing manuscripts, marked with notations such as "to be published as-is", "to be edited", etc., in anticipation of his entry into parinirvana (a "final" nirvana.)[1]
  • Salinger has three cats named Kitty 1, Kitty 2, and Kitty 3.[2]

Hobbesy3 16:01, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Good Article

I enjoyed this article very much. Thanks to all who contributed. H.Hall

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../j/2E/_/Talk%7EJ._D._Salinger_10a6.html"