Talk:Izumo no Okuni
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- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
The result of the debate was move. —Nightstallion (?) 13:29, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Support
- --み使い Mitsukai 08:20, 12 February 2006 (UTC). The historical figure is only known as Okuni within the context of kabuki, the art she founded. Within all other contexts (fictional, historical outside of kabuki, etc.) she is known by her full name. As the full name already exists as a redirect with a history, I requested this change.
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.
I'd like to see some references for the material in this article. As far as I know, Okuni is not a historically verifiable person and the fact that she created the base for what was later called kabuki (one can hardly call it "founding") may as well be an ex post attribution. I am not an expert in these matters, but I know enough to be able to doubt the historical accuracy of this article.
For one, Okuni might as well have been an impostor instead of a real miko. Further, I'd like to see am more critical treatment of the etymology of the word kabuki - it is by no means sure that the current way of writing it as "skills of singing and dancing" is ateji. Finally, it is to be doubted that Okuni eloborated on her form of nembutsu odori to develop it into an actual style of play. More probably, it served as an impulse for a broad range of other contemporary performing troupes or styles of performance.
[edit] Image
I was curious about the top image on this page, which is used in a number of places on Wikipedia; I spoke with Prof. Drew Gerstle, who's an expert on kabuki and Japanese theater in general, and he's firmly convinced that this image is not of Okuni. He even gave me a name of who exactly it does depict, but alas I've forgotten the name he gave me. Just thought I ought to mention it. LordAmeth 20:24, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
