Talk:Italian submarine Barbarigo

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An entry from Italian submarine Barbarigo appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know? column on 14 March 2007.

[edit] Requested move

Italian submarine Barbarigo → Barbarigo — The second name is more intuitive, but there's already one line of text there (it's the same subject). ... discospinster _talk 20:38, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

This is standard and non-controversial; no need for any polling unless somebody objects. Best of all, the page-history merge will be easy to achieve, since the stub was created on Feb 9 and the big article on March 10. Doops | talk 20:42, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

I've completed the move; cheers. -GTBacchus^(talk) 22:53, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

I cannot believe the cavalier way in which the article I wrote was renamed, without any discussion. What about Italian submarine Cappellini? What about the links in Regia Marina? Are you seriously suggesting that naval ships should have no prefix? Please look at any other naval ships - they always have 'USS' or 'HMS' for example, as prefixes. What do you mean Barbarigo is more intuitive - it certainly isn't, it could be someone's name. This should be covered by a redirect - I was just about to do that, after a good night's sleep, when I find you guys had got in boots and all.

I ask that this move be reversed, and a 'Barbarigo' redirect be created. GrahamBould 08:20, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh, wow. Yeah, I didn't imagine it would get moved that quickly -- I assumed there'd be a chance for people to weigh in. Um, if you want it moved back, list it on requested moves again. Sorry! Doops | talk 21:46, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi. I'm sorry to have come across as "cavalier" or "in boots". Requests listed as "uncontroversial" sometimes get processed in a matter of minutes. Moves are easy to reverse, so it's really no big deal to find out that a move is controversial by trying it out. Moreover, the two histories are merged now, which I reckon is a good thing. We'll get the title sorted out.

I'll be happy to move it back, but I'd first like to understand what's at stake here. Is there a standard prefix for Italian submarines, kind of like how some ship names are prefixed "HMS" or "USS"? In Category:Italian Navy submarines, I can see that several use the "Italian submarine Foo" format, but Enrico Toti (submarine) is an exception. How are other nations' submarines named? Is there a WikiProject or a naming convention involved? What do Discospinster and Doops think? -GTBacchus^(talk) 21:54, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh, well it's clear I need to give a more detailed explanation/apology. I stumbled onto this move request entirely by accident; my experience with the Italian Navy is nil. Somebody had set up a whole elaborate polling structure, which of course isn't initially necessary in a move request; I just deleted that because I was in a "beeing bold" mood at the time. I assumed that "Barbarigo" was the proper name, not "Italian Submarine Barbarigo", because my mind was parsing the "Italian submarine" not as a prefix but as a qualifier/disambig -- and of course it's usual to put qualifier/disambigs AFTER the name. (For example, it's Secretariat (horse) not horse Secretariat.) Anyway, I used the word 'noncontroversial' not in its technical (act right away!) sense but a more colloquial one (no need to set up a formal poll). ANYWAY, now I see GrahamBould's point about "Italian submarine" as a prefix. Is it really standard, though? On the one hand, it doesn't really sound standard; on the other hand what do I know? -- but on the third, and most important, hand, this doesn't just affect one article; nearly the whole Italian Navy seems to follow this practice on the Wikipedia. OK, that was a very long-winded way of saying that I don't really have anyhitng to contribute. Cheers, Doops | talk 22:47, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

Each country has its own prefix standard. HMS, USS, are well known, but also do a wiki search on 'French submarine' for example - you'll get numerous articles named 'French submarine foo'. Enrico Toti (submarine) is an exception - I'll look at fixing that later. In the mean time, I can't see any reason why the title for Barbarigo shouldn't be reversed. I'll look at disambig afterwards. Cheers GrahamBould 11:33, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Barbarigo should probably be a disambiguation page, as it seems to be a common surname. Look at this German page, each of which has a version on the English site. Rigadoun (talk) 17:13, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I feel more and more like an idiot. :) Doops | talk 17:45, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree, this article should be where it was, and Barbarigo made into a disambiguation page. If "Italian submarine" is a good enough prefix for all the others, it'll work for Barbarigo, too. I'll just do that. Sorry for any inconvenience. -GTBacchus^(talk) 09:12, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Incidentally, though, that lower-case 's' is a little odd. Wikipedia articles don't use "title case", of course; but as I've already mentioned "Italian submarine Barbarigo" isn't a well-formed article name qua article name. On the other hand, if that really is a formal and conventional prefix, I'm surprised the "s" isn't capitalized. Doops | talk 18:21, 14 March 2007 (UTC)