Talk:Islington

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[edit] Pronunciation

I've actually just moved to Islington - I'm studying at SOAS for the year. I'm sure it'll come up in person, but I nevertheless thought I'd ask here. Is "Islington" pronounced like the "is" in "island", or like the word "is", i.e. "Izz-ling-ton"? LordAmeth 01:17, 23 September 2006 (UTC)

Its IZzlington. all letters pronounced normally. Surely you could have simply asked anyone on the street?? Louis.

'Course I could have. But the people on the street here are kinda dodgy. And besides, why not ask here? Thanks, "mate". LordAmeth 22:29, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Socially challenged person, clearly! If you find all of the people of London's most socially mixed borough "dodgy", you have a problem. --SandyDancer 13:01, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Improving this article

Considering the prominence of the borough in London, I am surprised at how little attention this page has been given. I have tried to do a little clean-up but a lot more could be made of this. --SandyDancer 13:01, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I meant to try and do something with this poor sad page more than a year ago. I think part of the problem is that it was originally totally mixed up with the borough page, they were replicating each other in places but not in others, and this page included stuff about other areas of Islington not in Islington Proper (actually still does...). I also suspect that many people find it hard to be sure exactly where Islington (district) as opposed to Islington (borough) begins and end. Anyhow, will give it a go sometime soon, and add some images... Tarquin Binary 20:38, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

OK, it goes on a bit, and I'm not happy with it, but I've tried to define the district - it's surely the only way to start if this is to be disentangled from the borough. (The pity is that it cannot even be identified properly with the old pre-1965 borough, I think. Even the pre 1899 parish boundaries include parts of Holloway and Pentonville to boot. But I've long noted that the area next to Hoxton has no other name, it can only be a part of Islington district.) Tarquin Binary 21:34, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Gutted another couple of bits that are out of area. It just needs a complete and total rewrite job in fact. It is indeed unbelievable that this piece has remained in this state for so long. Ah well, a challenge... (Gosh, the borough article is rubbish too - this is all hard to credit). Tarquin Binary 21:43, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Trying to do some history. I'll come back to this, need more historical sources - it's frustrating because few references are exactly to this core area until late in history. Barnsbury, Canonbury, Holloway etc are no problem (actually they do need more copy too). Or I may just segue straight to the late 17th century, I feel less comfortable with pre-Enlightenment stuff anyway. Tarquin Binary 22:36, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh, you've retired. Could have used a second opinion... Tarquin Binary 22:42, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

I'll help if you can bear it ... Kbthompson 23:33, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Don't be daft. Of course, that would be great - I was dead grumpy the other day, I know - some seriously bad flu, sorry. I just have several problems with this piece (apart from wading through the good old History of the County of Middlesex, that really gives me a headache sometimes). One is that I don't have much faith that this district article will not get totally muddled up again - somehow Islington (district) doesn't seem as separate in people's minds from Islington (borough) as Hackney (district) is from Hackney (borough). Then looking at the HCM, much of the old history is of the large Parish of St Mary's that corresponds to the Metropolitan Borough (this is also true in Hackney, but it seems easier to make historical distinctions there, somehow).

So, in fact Islington (district) is actually a rather modern informal division - it's the default value in Islington for anything that doesn't fall easily into another district, basically. But it's really quite hard to isolate it historically from the wider pre-1899 parish and the Met Borough. Having said that, I think I can disentangle later history for the area I defined, particularly with regard to industry and, of course, in modern times. And, of course, the borough article is very very poor too, so maybe just generating some material and wedging it in any old how would be good, can always be refactored. (Pictures are no problem, we already have plenty on WM, can always get more). Oh, I think we should have an entry for Tollington - I'm always looking out for placenames that have almost entirely vanished, quite rare (though it is commemorated by a road and a pub).

Anyway, I'll come back to this later when I feel a bit fresher. Has to be fixed though. But I'm now wondering if the bulk of the history should not be on the borough page (which doesn't even have a piece on the Met Borough fusion with Finsbury - I'm going to add that right now. Tarquin Binary 00:00, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't disagree with the boundaries, and you've made a good start. The kind of topics covered in a history, would surely be

• New River (& other watering holes - source of springs),
• Regents Canal (I know you can't see it!),
• Georgian elegance,
• the markets (Royal Agric, cattle feed lot - for resting drovers, last leg to smithfield)
• Music halls (eg Collins, now a bookshop)
• decay,
• Victoria Line (almost single handedly doubled property prices - there but for the grace of god, goes Hackney),
• it's idiosyncratic period (squatter heaven, new labour, TV & ad execs)
• gaudy tawdry (descent into multiples)

Kbthompson 00:25, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh, I wholly agree with that sequence, and most of it is within the borders I wrote up too. Been mulling over starting from the New River, in fact, though that is of more significance to Finsbury, I suppose. (In fact I was right there for the 'idiosyncratic' bit, have to get a Hope & Anchor pic in). I would also add WW2, this is insufficiently covered by WP for most London districts, IMO, given its significance. WP really ought to have WW2 damage and casualty figures (preferably by year) for all the 1940s London boroughs. Also Islington (district and borough) was far more industrial through the 19th and 20th centuries than many people realise. There's much material, just organising it... Tarquin Binary 00:38, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Made a modicum of a start. Basically get the framework in, argue amongst ourselves as to what's in and what's out. Was this a manor of St Paul's, or am I mixed up with Stokie? Kbthompson 15:14, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Great, that's improved it a whole lot already. Well, HCM says it was a manor of St Paul's (as Stokie was too). OK, I might start at the other end(ish) of history and work backwards. More likely on the weekend. Tarquin Binary 16:23, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't take much. We have a plan - we'll meet somewhere in the Victorian era ... There's a whole lot of pubs from about 1600 - will probably mention it, but don't want to turn it into a ancient pub crawl. Much like Hoxton and Hackney, people seemed to come out here on day trips. The Kings' Head has been there since 1543! (rebuilt a few times). Kbthompson 16:59, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

And it still uses LSD. Pity about the Old Parr's Head, though. Islington in general really is disorganised, just found this: East Canonbury. The Canonbury piece needs work as it is, and someone splits off half of what is already quite a small district... Tarquin Binary 17:22, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

The piece I mention above reads as though written by an estate agent. The N1 move to Islington campaign sounds like fantasy. It's certainly not NPOV anyway. Tarquin Binary 17:30, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

Glad you mentioned the 'cattle lairs' on Liverpool Road. I've just found the 1871 OS map I mislaid, because I thought I might add a scan of the area just south of H&I station that was a huge factory for the London General Omnibus Company - this has the 'lairs' too, so it's doubly interesting. It would be nice to do an old OS map section for the Angel too, but this doesn't go that far... Tarquin Binary 18:01, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

OK, I think my work is largely done (well, I'm running out of ideas ...). Could do a para on the Screen on the Green, other music halls are probably another para, maybe dealt with somewhere else. Trying to stop going into tedious detail. East Canonbury is awful, someone's first go (at a district that doesn't exist?). There's also The Angel, Islington, better but a small part of this area - Finsbury? A lot links there.

I think the tale (told by an idiot?), is a coherent one. Feel free to abuse my golden prose, structure and diction. 12:45, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

No, good section, will check for copy errors later, though. I have some ideas on further stuff, but will have to wait till the weekend (need to expand Barnsbury, at the very least add listed buildings - it's a very closely linked area). I'm kind of inclined to think that East Canonbury is a VfD candidate, and I've never proposed one before, being pretty tolerant and all. Tarquin Binary 22:08, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Political and media associations

Surprised not to see any mention in this article to the popular associations between Islington and New Labour (particularly only passing reference to Tony Blair's former residency here, and also the famous Granita meeting) and also the connotations of, for example, 'Islington media' types. These associations have given 'Islington' meaning beyond the place itself. 87.86.239.10 15:24, 5 March 2007 (UTC)