User talk:Ish ishwar/2006talkpage

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2006 archived talk page (jan-mar)

[edit] PIE project

Hi, congratulations on your success. Glad my endorsement didn't do you any harm! Question, would you be interested in a bigger project on PIE? Go to Talk:List of Indo-European roots#Project proposal and if you are interested, stick your oar into the discussion going on there. As an administrator you would be well placed to advise in the early stages. --Doric Loon 10:55, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Now at User:Doric Loon/PIE Roots project page. --Doric Loon 16:55, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

hi. thank you.

hmm. Well, i am not so well-versed in PIE (i do better in proto-Athabascan). I'm not sure how much help i could be. Right now I am busy, so I need to try & stay away from Wikipedia for a while. Thanks for the invitation, i'll took a look some time in the future.

peace – ishwar  (speak) 17:09, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Dates of maps in Mithun 1999 and Campbell 1997

Hi Ish. CJLippert has pointed out to me that the map of the Ojibwe language I made based on the ones in Mithun 1999 (and on the many maps you've made) doesn't represent the distribution of Ojibwe at the time of contact with Europeans. He tells me that it better represents the distribution some time in the 1800s (although apparently I didn't include Odawa and a few other communities). I looked at the maps in Campbell 1997, and he has more or less the same distribution for Ojibwe, and it's also supposedly the approximate distribution at the time of first contact with Europeans. Do you have any idea what time the maps actually show, or why they don't show the proper pre-contact distribution? Thanks. Take care, --Whimemsz 23:32, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Image:Ojibwe Language Map.png

hi. i dont know much about Ojibwe, so i really would need to look this up. i would say that we should look at the Handbook of North American Indian, except being that the Northeast volume was published in 1978 this material may be a bit dated (and I wouldnt know what is out of date & what is not). but, we should probably look at that anyway since this handbook is so informative, generally speaking. the Languages volume, however, was published in 1996: the map contained therein is the best language map of the entire continent. the map was also republished in 1999 in a giant wall-sized version that states that it has been enlarged and corrected. i have both of these maps (and also Mithun 1999).

all of these maps are of different time periods in that the boundaries of eastern peoples are of an earlier date than the boundaries of western peoples. however, this is just a general statement: there are exceptions (e.g. the California peoples' boundaries are earlier than the Apachean peoples). all of this is contingent upon when a particular ethnic group was encountered by Europeans/Euro-Americans and how accurate the historical record is. i dont specifically know the time period for the boundaries of northeastern Algonquian groups. this information is usually on the culture area map that appears at the beginning of every volume, but since the Northeast volume is kind of old, i dont know how greatly this 1978 culture area map differs from the 1996/1999 language map. (& i havent bought this volume, so i need to go the library.)

my map is based in many ways on the Mithun 1999 map that appears at the beginning of the book (especially, in terms of the projection); however, i have modified the boundaries of many groups to follow the boundaries in the Goddard 1996/1999 map. Mithun's map is essentially the map of tribes that was created by Harold Driver et. al. first around 1950, reprinted throughout the 1950s & 1960s. i think (but i'm not sure) that Driver often used the watersheds of rivers, etc. to help him delineate the tribes. so, as you can guess, there has been a lot more research since then. thus, following the Goddard map is the way to go. (i started out with the Mithun map because it was in black & white, which i thought would simply things.)

i think that my map is so far more accurate than Mithun, but not as accurate as Goddard. but, i'm not finished with it, either. i still want to adjust some of the boundaries.

ok, about Ojibwe: i agree with user CJLippert. just a quick glance at Goddard's map shows these peoples were not that far west. if we can look at other maps we may find something even more detailed and/or accurate than Goddard. concerning my little map of the distribution of Algic/Algonquian, the area of the northeastern groups is pretty close to Goddard's. however, the northwestern boundary in Canada is one of the things that i want to adjust, but this concerns Plains Cree and Blackfoot (and not Ojibwe).

if you want to make a better map following Goddard, i have scanned sections of his map, which i could email you if want.

peace – ishwar  (speak) 03:21, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

oh, Campbell 1997, i forget what he uses. he sometimes follows the Handbook and other times follows William Bright's encyclopedia.

i think that people often will forgive you if you use older sources for maps of large areas, such as of entire language families. but, when it is of single ethnic group, they will expect more precision. – ishwar  (speak) 03:24, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Okay, thank you so much for all the info. An email of the Goddard maps would be great! Campbell says his source is The International Encyclopedia of Linguistics. Thanks again! --Whimemsz 22:53, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] reply: CJLippert

Hmmm. It seems Whimemsz has left the Wiki. How shall we go about with the re-edited map? Before his departure, I have suggested a map with a diffusion effect with the core areas that is coloured and the more migratory areas being transparent fading to none once outside of the rang. Also, before a map could be made, a specific timeframe needs to be listed due to the westerly migration. On the other hand, for the Ojibwe language page and the Anishinaabe page, other Anishinaabeg ought to be included. I have a series of maps based purely on oral history with some areas verified in early missionary recordings, treaty negotiations, and personal accounts of fur traders, lumbermen, etc. The images are Image:Anish-1400.GIF, Image:Anish-1500.GIF, Image:Anish-1600.GIF, Image:Anish-1700.GIF, Image:Anish-1800.GIF, Image:Anish-1900.GIF and Image:Anish-2000.GIF, but they are very crude. Your suggestions on how to incorporate these map ideas but fitting them into serious anthropological research data maps would be helpful. CJLippert 00:55, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

hi. I am a bit busy right now & so I probably wont be spending much time with Wikipedia. (i had been spending too much time here anyway).

I think that your suggestion is good. You have made several maps of the different time periods. Could these be fitted into a single map or would this obscure the information? Basing them on oral histories is a very good idea. I would wonder how they compare to other maps created by (white) anthropologists/historians. It would be interesting to know where they differ. Do you know of others maps? (perhaps a map bibliography would be useful to other Algonquian internet surfers wanting to make future maps?)

I personally havent read anything (at all) about maps and map-making, and so I consider myself very amateur. All of the maps that I have made have been very static and with clearly defined delimited areas. This is probably not very accurate to the way that some groups "occupy" an area. Additionally, I am trained in linguistics and not anthropology. So, perhaps, you are better qualified than me? And, finally, I dont much about graphic design, either. Wikipedia led me to spend some of my free time learning how to use the GIMP program which I used to create my maps. I created my maps by scanning the (paper) sources, tracing the boundaries, and then modifying my tracings & filling in colors. – ishwar  (speak) 20:54, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

The crude map might work if the overlays were in different colours such that as we go forward in centuries, the colours shift in spectrum. I do make maps, but I am currently busy with making maps of mining project that can potentially impact northern Minnesota tribes/northwestern Onario First Nations, through air and water pollution. This might be something to re-visit later, which for me will not be until a small span in the summer and then then a longer span next winter. CJLippert 01:32, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] You've only just now become an admin?

I just read on the Wikipedia Signpost that you have just become an admin. Sorry I didn't vote; I didn't know about it (I very rarely look at RFA). I certainly would have voted for you if I had known. But the shock for me is that you weren't already one! I always sort of assumed you were. Just goes to show. Anyway, congrats, and welcome to the cabal! ;-) Angr/talk 21:30, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

hi. thanks. it's ok, i may not use the extra functions for a while anyway (only thing i've done is to delete a speedy delete). it's nice to see that you are working to beef up theoretical linguistics. take care – ishwar  (speak) 06:51, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Happy Valentine's day!

Happy Valentine's Day, my dear Ish! Phædriel

hi. thanks. i hope you have a happy day, too. peace – ishwar  (speak) 00:56, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America

Dear Ish, seeing you adding yourself to the newly created WikiProject Indigenous peoples of North America fills me with joy and relief. I was about to make a template to formally invite several users whose expertise on the subject I have in high regard, among whom you hold a priviledged spot, and then I saw you immediately took the task of starting to categorize articles as part of the project. Allow me to give you the warmest welcome, and I hope this is but the beginning of a long and fruitful cooperation. Cheers, Phædriel ♥ ^{tell me} - 22:01, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

well, i'll do what i can. and continue to have my fun. i wouldnt really call myself an expert on anything except Apachean langs. i am currently focusing on South America for the time being (since it is even further neglected in cyberspace). i have made a page, i think, on all North American language families, but some of these may be not be filled out. (of course, there are/were many peoples whose language we know nothing about -- language death). South America, here on Wikipedia, is much sadder. and there are a lot more languages, which are often more challenging to find out about for a non-South American specialist like myself.

thank you for the warm welcome & the project. peace – ishwar  (speak) 00:04, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Extending Tahltan article

Hi, I noticed your work on the Tahltan page. Kudos to you for doing this! And thank you.

Some other links re Tahltan language I've collected here.

Perhaps I'll add them at some point, but thought I'd draw your attn to them in the meantime.

More to the point: Tahltan is also a *place* - viz. at the confluence of the Tahltan and Stikine Rivers. It is a place of considerable historical and cultural significance to the Tahltan people. This ought to be added to this page, but I'm not sure about formatting, etc., much less precise content.

Some history of the Tahltan people would be good to add as well....

I hope to get to all of this, but I lack the time & know-how at the moment.

Tks, userX 05:24, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

thanks for reading and the links.

the page is just a beginning: add whatever you can find out whenever you do.

peace – ishwar  (speak) 05:33, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Congratulations!

Congratulations! It's my pleasure to let you know that, consensus being reached, you are now an administrator. You should read the relevant policies and other pages linked to from the administrators' reading list before carrying out tasks like deletion, protection, banning users, and editing protected pages such as the Main Page. Most of what you do is easily reversible by other sysops, apart from page history merges and image deletion, so please be especially careful with those. You might find the new administrators' how-to guide helpful. Cheers! -- Cecropia 05:08, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

• Congratulations. I'm sure you'll be a fine administrator :-) Keep up the good work, Alhutch 05:13, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

ok. thanks. – ishwar  (speak) 05:15, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Glad you made it: I know you'll be a fine admin. Congratulations! — mark ✎ 08:00, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations from me as well and good luck with the shiny new buttons. - BanyanTree 14:49, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

thank you (both). well, i'll try to be a good one. feel free to let me know if i'm doing poorly. peace – ishwar  (speak) 06:24, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes, congrats, Ish. You're the kind of people I like working with. kwami 01:43, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

hi. thank you. i like working with you, too (& reading your contributions). peace – ishwar  (speak) 01:48, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

Congratulations. I just read about it in the Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost. You're a fine contributor and I'm sure you'll be a great administrator. Cheers, -Will Beback 10:22, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

hi. thank you and nice to meet you. cheers – ishwar  (speak) 00:55, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] yo thanks! + Admin nomination

hey man, thanks for accepting the nomination. Even though we have not met, I know from your edits and experience that you'll make a good admin.

I noticed that you answered all of the questions needed. Are you going to expand it, or should the page now be put up on the main RfA page so that others can vote on your adminship? Also, should I put it up?

Thanks!

Thistheman 22:59, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

ok. i guess i am ready. if you want to connect it to the Requests for Adminship, that is fine or i can do it. i think i should ask one of my "conflicts" to participate. peace – ishwar  (speak) 00:14, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Well I put it up myself, just because I happened to be here. You already have 2 votes of support (1 before I could even put my vote in; I think that's a good sign). So, we'll just wait and see what happens. Wishing you much good luck! Thistheman 05:02, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

Hi again, watch your vote page in case some other people ask questions, because there are those who will ask. Hope all is well! Thistheman 05:57, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

hi. thanks for putting it up & for the encouragement. i'll be watching. however, tuesday must a Non-Wikipedia Day for me as i have many things to do on this day of the week. even if i'm not admin material, i am sure some fellow editors will let me know how i should improve my involvement. peace – ishwar  (speak) 06:04, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Cochise Tradition

I came across this page while prowling Dead-End Pages. I was wondering if you might take a look at it with a view to merging anything useful into Chiricahua then putting it up for deletion. Thanks MNewnham 22:21, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

hi. the Cochise Tradition has nothing to do with Chiricahua peoples or the Chiricahua leader named Cochise. it is a particular region including southeastern Arizona & parts of New Mexico & Mexico of a certain time period that is defined archeologically. this is at least 5000 years ago (i didnt know it may be more than 7000 yrs as the aricle says) which is way before the Apachean ancestors migrated from Canada (they arrived before the Spanish about 600 yrs ago). so, it's its own topic & cant be merged with the Chiricahua page. since North American archeology is poorly represented in Wikipedia, i imagine that this page will remain a stub for a good while. i'm not an anthropologist, so i'm not very good with this. peace – ishwar  (speak) 06:48, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, by the way you did a great tidyup job on it. There are a number of similar articles by user:Maru_d that are in the same sphere that need tidying. MNewnham 15:39, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] takelma

i just split off the language from the people and also added a consonants inventory. can you check this out and make sure i did not mess anything up. (this is the first time i attempted such a thing.) --coreyr 07:37, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

ok. i'll take a look. thanks – ishwar  (speak) 06:20, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 3RR

Hi, Ish. I don't mean to be a wet blanket, but a single, non-descriptive sentence surrounded by an external link is a speedy deletion candidate. If it's deleted and reposted again in its current state, you'll be in a three-revert rule violation. Can you please expand this to at least three or four sentences? Thanks. Best, Lucky 6.9 17:14, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

• Metatypy

i did. you are too efficient. peace – ishwar  (speak) 17:33, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Navajo language

Gidday Ish. An anon recently made a couple of minor but uncited changes to the phonology in the above article, see diff here. They may possibly be valid corrections which were well-spotted, or mistaken ones, or just plain fooling around - I'm not qualified enough to tell the difference, would you be able to take a look? Cheers, --cjllw | TALK 05:31, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

hi. these did not change any content, just the presentation. w is usually called a labial even though it's both labial & velar. from a purely a phonetic point of view, it would make sense to put it under this labial-velar column as the anon has done. "extremely" wasnt a particularly good word choice, but i never bothered to change it.

thanks for watching. peace – ishwar  (speak) 07:10, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

No worries, and thanks for looking in to it.--cjllw | TALK 09:39, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Proto-Athabaskan

Hi Ishwar. I asked this on the Athabaskan languages talk page already, but I haven't gotten a response from anyone yet, so I just decided to repeat the question here. Is Proto-Athabaskan really reconstructed as having two vowels? Campbell 1997 says that Krauss and Golla 1981, Krauss 1979, and Cook and Rice 1989 reconstruct i, u, e ([æ]), a ([ɔ]), and "reduced vowels" α, ə, and ʊ. Thanks! --Whimemsz 23:46, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

hi. i'll answer over there (Talk:Athabaskan languages#Proto-Athabaskan). – ishwar  (speak) 16:26, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Washo language

Hello. I took out the info on the Washo language page you added about Yuki-Wappo as it looked to me that you confused Washo and Wappo. I also expanded the section on Washo's possible relations to other languages. Since you seem to have adopted most of the Native American language pages (and thank you for that) I thought I should let you know. Jfpierce 02:40, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

hi. wow. that was a big mistake of mine. thank you for correcting me & paying attention (since i apparently was not). i'll add some more stuff. peace – ishwar  (speak) 14:26, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image Deletion

[edit] Image:Barred lambda.png listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Barred lambda.png, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please look there to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in its not being deleted. Thank you. —MetsBot 18:58, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

• replaced with Image:Barred lambda.svg by User:Zippanova. – ishwar  (speak) 09:15, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hawaiian Language is Important as Well

Please consider working with me to find a way to respect and represent both Remo and Hawaiian on Wikipedia. Kukini 20:25, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

hi. Hawaiian is represented with its own article: Hawaiian language. as it turns out, i mispelled this alternate name for the Remo language — i should have written Kukuini. so, this reference to Remo should be removed from that page. thanks for making me look again.

however, the word kukini is just a word in the Hawaiian (at least that is all that you have written). if so, then this page will probably be deleted soon because wikipedia is an encyclopedia and not a dictionary. having a separate article on every single word in the Hawaiian language does not belong here. but, it does belong in Wiktionary the related dictionary project which is here: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Main_Page.

peace – ishwar  (speak) 22:02, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Good point. As "kukini" were a special category of people in ancient Hawaii, I will have to update that link soon. Best wishes in your work in here. Kukini 22:29, 7 January 2006 (UTC)