Talk:Isaias Afewerki

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Eritrea To-do:

The name of the president of Eritrea is Isaias Afwerki, as you can see on his own letter ho the Irish prime minister -- Penas 14:28, 28 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Since no one has fixed this I will if no one has any comment. I think the point is obvious.

Merhawie 14:10, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Go ahead. The google results confirm it is more commonly used, too (I always wondered why the "e" was there, if it's pronounced the same as in Amharic, except with an "i"). Yom 16:44, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Last Paragraph

Consider the following excerpt from the last paragraph of the article:

Eritrea has not held any elections since independence and remains a one-party state.[1] Moreover, the government has banned all private media, and according to Reporters without Borders, imprisons more journalists than any other nation in the world.[2][3] The Eritrean constitution was ratified in 1997 by a constituent assembly. In May 2002 all Christian denominations apart from the Catholic, Orthodox and Evangelical Lutheran churches were ordered to close their churches. Hundreds of Christians have been arrested.[4],[5] In the summer of 2005, the Patriarch of the Eritrean Orthodox Church was removed from administrative authority by the government as well.

Would it not be better to include this material in an article on Eritrean Politics rather than on Isaias Afewerki? I kind of feel like it's steering away from the focus of the article. Also, I was just wondering if it's possible to maybe refer to sources other than BBC? Please let me know your opinions. Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 63.224.46.149 (talk • contribs) 07:08 20 October 2005 (UTC).

I tend to agree that this article could become cluttered with discussion of Eritrean politics in general. While it definitely bears mentioning in this article, I think any further discussion of general politics should be included instead in Politics of Eritrea. I'm the one who added the BBC references. Someone kept removing the more critical portions, so I thought it would be better to cite sources. I happened to find relevant articles at the BBC website, so it was less work for me to just cite the BBC. At the time I did share your same concern about having all the references from one site, but in all likelihood, laziness simply got the better of me. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 15:03, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Someone had removed both the paragraph in question along with its notes. I have restored both. While I am all for improving the text, as discussed above, I do not see the complete removal of information as an improvement. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 04:54, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

It may have been me who made the changes. I took a broad brush stroke to make revisions that I thought were wrong. I saw your repair and decided to do it with a finer brush this time. I had two concerns with your information. The first was that it seemed to be more an analysis of Politics in Eritrea rather than biographical information on the President. My second concern was that some of the information was either wrong or not true. There have indeed been elections but as with most of the things that go on in the country very quiet, and as is typical of the BBC not reported on. -- Merhawie

Thank you for adding the clarifications to the article. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 20:27, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

Once again, what on Earth does the following statement have to do with Isaias Afewerki?:

The Administration has prosecuted the editors of all but three local newspapers for failure to adhere to the Press Law. According to Reporters without Borders, Eritrea imprisons 13 journalists.[2][3] The Eritrean constitution was ratified in 1997 by a constituent assembly. In May 2002 all Christian denominations apart from the Catholic, Orthodox and Evangelical Lutheran churches were ordered to close their churches in respect of the religious regulations in effect since Colonial Eritrea. Hundreds of Christians have been arrested.[4],[5].

Why isn't there an explaination of how Isaias Afewerki has PERSONALLY AFFECTED such actions. If Gyrofrog was planning to steer away from Isaias Afewerki and talk about religion in Eritrea why does she/he not talk about Eritrea being one of the few nations in the world stabilizing a population with a 50:50 Muslim to Christian ratio? Also, I don't understand why BBC is still the ONLY reference for this article. Why couldn't Gyrofrog take the time to look for other sources? Wikipedia is here to serve the truth, not to present uncritically accepted mainstream propaganda. Since the birth of Eritrea as a sovereign nation, BBC has consistently exhibited negative bias towards the country's policy. Since Isaias Afewerki became president, Eritrea has adopted a socialist self-reliance philosophy and has eliminated all debt to the IMF even though the country was left under the rubble of 30 years war ( http://www.blackelectorate.com/articles.asp?ID=1094). The West used private media and various CIA operatives to try and overturn the Shaebia government, so accordingly, mainstream media agencies like BBC and Reuters have taken part in bias representations of Eritrean leaders and policy (http://www.shabait.com/staging/publish/article_004351.html AND FOR THOSE WHO ARE FIXED ON BBC: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/2347291.stm). I politely ask the past and future editors to look further than BBC and Reuters to make various claims and find other sources of information. If the text of this article is not changed soon, I will adjust it myself.

Also read: http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_374.shtml —the preceding unsigned comment is by 63.224.34.154 (talk • contribs) 06:58, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

By all means, if you are able to cite other sources then please do so. No need to rely on me or anyone else for that matter. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 10:28, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

I don't think were on the same page here. The text in this article is only there because your sources attempt to justify them. Talking about religious persecution and jailing journalists without also talking about the 'good things' like building Eritrea from the rubbles of war seems somewhat slanderous in describing the president. If your sources are weak and undiversified I dont believe such claims should be made without good justification. Why should I find sources to justify slanderous claims. With all due respect, I ask that You find sources for Your claims. Until then I will temporarily take down what you wrote until you find your necessary sources. —the preceding comment is by 24.16.108.64 - 04:01, 8 April 2006: Please sign your posts!

I added the references because someone kept removing the text - little of which, if any, did I write myself. I suppose you could argue I was pushing a POV by keeping the critical text in the article, especially without countering with something positive. I will tell you right now that currently I have absolutely no motivation to dig up anything positive about Isaias Afewerki, Meles Zenawi, George W. Bush or any other politician. So you believe the article exhibits a particular POV? I'll do you a favor and tag it as such. As for countering the existing information with something positive (e.g. building Eritrea from the rubbles of war), I'm afraid I must leave that to you or to someone else. However I don't see how the article is slanderous and I think you would put youself in an awkward position by removing information that is verifiable and cites its sources. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 15:47, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

I'll also refer you to my earlier comments on this talk page, as well as to the article's edit history. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 15:52, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

I am considering removing a great deal of the information on this page because it is not about the President. In fact a great deal of the information here is actually about the People's Front for Democracy and Justice. It should be removed because although he is the current leader of the Party, he is not THE Party. Furthermore I agree that there is a POV a problem in this article because it is all from non-Eritrean sources; non-Eritrean sources are fine if Eritrean sources are also used to corroborate without bias, that is not done in this article. Finally the information that is available is all in Tigrinya and/or PDF's and not easily citable.Merhawie 13:58, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Merhawie, please sign your above comment. Although the information is not directly about him, the information is certainly relevant to him, seeing as he is the President and founder of the party. You cannot deny that he controls much of what goes on in Eritrea, and for this reason the scandals are particularly relevant. If you can find Tigrinya sources with reliable translations, then by all means use them.

Yom 18:39, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Actually the President is not the Founder of the party but rather...a founding member. Confusing but a clarification, he has not always been the leader of the party, and the elder statesmnan of the Party is not the President.

What you are suggesting Yom is to blame G W Bush for the problems of the Republican party such us Mr. Delay's trouble or the problem with lobbyists. Just because President Issayas is President of the country does not mean he is responsbile for every act done by the Government. Recall that the function of a President is to delegate responsibilities, that is why I have suggested the creation of the pages for the rest of the Ministers and Cabinet officials. Merhawie 13:58, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Gyrofrog, I suggest you read the following article and understand why you shouldn't be quick to blame Isaias Afewerki for any religious persecution: http://www.shabait.com/staging/publish/article_004915.html

You should always hear both sides of the story before coming to any conclusions. The reference I just gave you presents a clear justification for why Isaias is not to blame for any sort of religious persecution. Merhawi also made a good point by explaining that religious persecution is matter to be discussed in a PFDJ ariticle, not this one. Thank you and will make the according changes. Also, please dont revert changes unless you give your justifications for doing so. —the preceding comment is by 67.183.13.183 - 00:52, 4 May 2006: Please sign your posts!

I am compelled to ask whether you have read any of my responses, particularly the last one. Perhaps I should be more forthright and tell you simply that this article is not very high on my list of priorities and hasn't been for some time (particularly as I'm able to spend less time at Wikipedia in general). The only reason I've put this much effort toward responding to your comments is because you continue call me out by name. I haven't edited the article in about a month, and that was to add the {{POV}} tag (which I thought would have met with your approval) and restore the photograph. If you would check the article's edit history (which I had asked you before) you would see that the last revert I made was March 3, about one month before our last round of discussions. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 01:28, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

Gyrofrog, allow me to input my comments on the issue and in particular on President Isaias. All or most of the talks, especially from foreign sources, of the president and the way he handles his responsibility have been highly biased, unfair and intended to defame him and alienate him from the people who have high respects for him. I for one do respect him highly because he has the vision of a progressive leader, he is persistent (not stabborn as many would like to make him appear) in achieving his goals--which is more Nation and people oriented instead of personal glory. He does not try to lick peoples boots to get what he thinks is good for Eritrea. I try to compare him with his shrewd Ethiopian counterpart but there is no comparison between the two at all. He believes in partnership and opposes point blank those who try to deceive him (the difficulty with NGOs). Meles gets what he wanted by pleasing his donors. Isaias pushes for production from meagre rain to feed the country opposing free food distribution, Meles leaves his doors open for more and more food aid disregarding the possibility that the areas of his country with good rain could produce enough to feed the horn of Africa. More could be said. If these qualities were displayed from a European or American leader the press would make that leader shine but from an African leader? He is labelled a trouble maker and so should be immersed in trouble before he influences other leaders. The poletical issues raised against him are brought up at an inapropriate hour when the country is at a "no-war-no-peace" situation and all forces are geared to make him ineffective. I consider them not valid. I would challenge anyone to give the president 5 years of peace (with the boarder issue with Ethiopia cleared) and we will see all the points raised against our president proved false. I think we should judge this person without bias and, instead, expose his positive value. He may be an asset for Africa and the world at large. Harbegna.