Talk:Iran-Iraq War

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Contents

[edit] US Entanglment nice way to say support

Whichever person keeps changing US Support to Iraq to US Entanglment PLEASE STOP Or I will keep checking everyday and change it back to what it should be


[edit] Longest war??

The intro refers to the conflict as the longexst conventional war of the 20th century. What are the metrics for that claim? Was the Vietnam confilct not longer than 8 years? How about the European theatre of WWII or the Congo war? The Soviet-Afghan war lasted 9 years. Is this just regional hyperbole (mother of all battles, line of death) or what? L0b0t 12:45, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

First Indochina War - 9 years, Vietnam War - 16 years, Soviet-Afghan War - 9 years, Second Sino-Japanese War - 14 years, Korean War - 57 years and counting. I've removed the claim about the Iran-Iraq war being the longest in the 20th cent. as it is not even in the top 5. L0b0t 15:39, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
The statement is from the introduction of Dilip Hiro's book, The Longest War. (Google books has the relevant exerpt here) I don't have any opinion on whether Hiro's conclusion is accurate or helpful, though. TheronJ 15:47, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for the link. I was actually just getting ready to schlep down the old NYPL and check that book out. Cheers. L0b0t 16:48, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Do anyway - it's a great book, even if it does tend to give a little too much credence to conspiracy theories. (For example, IIRC Hiro reports the October Surprise conspiracy, which had not been either proven or discredited at that time, as fact.) TheronJ 17:30, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Thanks, I will check it out. On a side note, I'm about halfway through Anatol Lieven's Chechnya: Tombstone of Russian Power ISBN 0-300-07398-4. It is AMAZING, well worth a reading if that part of the world is of interest to you. Cheers. L0b0t 18:21, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Green Light

"The threshold for inclusion in Wikipedia is verifiability, not truth. "Verifiable" in this context means that any reader should be able to check that material added to Wikipedia has already been published by a reliable source."

The claim for Carter's green light has been published by a reliable source, investigative journalist Robert Parry. He has published a direct quotation of an official of the highest rank stating that the green light was given, and this particular assertion (the quote of Haig's memo) has never been contradicted (has it?). Can anyone explain where exactly this piece of information falls short of suitability for inclusion without caveats and weasel words in wikipedia? Asgrrr 20:48, 30 December 2006 (UTC)

That dam* warmongering Carter. He should be extradited to the Hague to face trial. CJK 01:58, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New article

I created a new article about the disproportionately large section section about international aid. Is there a problem, or is this ROS (revert on sight)? CJK 01:58, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I dont see a problem with you creating other articles if they are notable enough, but the information you are removing from this article are not unnecessary details or unrelated information, they are concise & important information, required to the informativeness of this article. By the way, you should read WP:VAN, and stop accusing me of vandalism. - Marmoulak 03:06, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

The sections are far too long and are quite controversial, only somewhat related to the actual fighting (which this article is about). We have a lot of unneeded details about exactly what each nation sent and what certain commentators have to say about it. Thus, we need to reduce it to 1 para military procurement and 1 para WMD procurement, transferring the rest to an alternative article. It would make clear who sent what, but in general terms, with more details in an alternative article. For instance, we don't need the exact number and type of chemical/bio precursors sent and which companies sent them in this article, just that "X country sent mainly _______" and so on. CJK 01:00, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
That is your POV, this article's length isn't too long at all, just compare it to other articles on wars. There are no "unneeded details", everything is directly related to Iran-Iraq war. Foreign aid and foreign intervention is important and required to be focused on because it played an important role in the course of the war. The role of United States, particularly, should be focused on since it was a party of the war and directly changed the course of the war several times. - Marmoulak 00:55, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why the quote keeps getting removed

None of the statements are substantiated with actual evidence, and where there is it isn't redundant:

Opinions: "It is becoming increasingly clear that George Bush Sr., operating largely behind the scenes throughout the 1980s, initiated and supported much of the financing, intelligence, and military help that built Saddam's Iraq into [an aggressive power]" and “Reagan/Bush administrations permitted — and frequently encouraged — the flow of money, agricultural credits, dual-use technology, chemicals, and weapons to Iraq.”

Facts: the evidence that I inserted clearly shows that other countries gave much more financing than occured during the BNL scandal. The intelligence is already included in a different section. The military help has already been documented in the preceding paragraph and it is laughable that 100 helicopters built Saddam's Iraq into an aggressive power. The money is included in a different space. The dual technology is covered, as are chemicals and weapons. So the quote adds absolutely nothing whatsoever to this article. CJK 00:06, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

The dual technology, indirect support and most importantly intelligence support isn't included in the document, it only contains the recorded arms transfer to Iraq. After the Iranian forces pushed Iraqi forces back to Iraq, the U.S. intelligence support for Iraq went as far as planning the strategies for the Iraqi army. Nevertheless what brings U.S. to the spotlight is its direct involvement in the war. U.S. directly destroyed half of Iran's navy and sank Iran's oil platforms. It is not your place to decide what "adds to this article", please keep your POV out of the article. - Marmoulak 00:36, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm not talking about the document, I'm talking about the article in general. The quote adds nothing to the article because everything mention is already covered. I did not change anything about Iran's navy being destroyed. CJK 22:03, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Chemical warfare

"Chemical weapons had not previously been widely used in any major war since the Second Italo-Abyssinian War." Chemical weapons were used in the 1957 war between Egypt and Saudi Arabian, with massive causalties, including civilians. I read this in the book "Six Days of War" (about the Six-Day War).--Tdkehoe 15:07, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] additional source

This source should be used in the article:

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17053.htm

Highly informative.--Zereshk 11:40, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Radio broadcasts: exclusively or extensively?

Soon Iraqi radio stations began exclusively broadcasting into "Arabistan",

I can't figure out a reading of 'exclusively' which makes sense there: surely they were still broadcasting into Iraq proper. My best guess is, this was supposed to be 'extensively', but I'm not sure enough to just go ahead and change it yet. Jtl 00:00, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Casualties

The table on the top right corner of this article says Iran has an estimated 500,000 casualties. Later on in the article, at 'Aftermath', there is a sourced line saying an estimated 1 million casualties. Which one is true? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.92.191.24 (talk) 07:52, 30 March 2007 (UTC).

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