Talk:Interstate 96

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This article is part of the Michigan State Highways WikiProject, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to highways in Michigan. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.
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[edit] Route Description

I am wondering what is involved in doing something like this. I do not know what all is supposed to go into it and if you can provide me a link or an example of what is needed I can probally put one of these up on the article.

[edit] Michigan_State_Highway_6

How does M-6 (Michigan_State_Highway_6) fit in? It's the new "South Beltline". Is it important enough to warrant a mention in the junctions on this page, and the Interstate 196 page? If no one raises an objection I am going to add it in soon, especially since there is some possibility it may itself pick up an Interstate designation... ++Lar

An interesting thought on the Interstate designation is that it can be done right now as it is built using interstate guidelines. But I have a feeling that Mdot is doing a 20 year or so goal of eliminating US 31 from Michigan. As of right now US 31 is of interstate quality except for a strech between Napier Ave to I 94, Holland to the draw bridge in Grand Haven (a note is that a drawbridge on an interstate is fine), and then from Ludington to I 75 near the Mighty Mac. As of right now the first two streches could begin building in the next decade. The final stretch will probally come in 2 or 3 sections. The first would be probally go from US 10 in Ludington to M72 on the eastside of Traverse City. From here it could either go around both Elk and Torch Lakes or go between them. But considering the cost of going between them and the fact of no clearence in the current US 31 path in the cities of Elk Rapids and Charlevoix I think they will try to go around those two lakes. If the Freeway were to go along a route of M 72 it could then meet up with US 131. At that point it could follow US 131 up to its connection with US 31 at Petoskey. At that point it would be short haul from Petoskey to Mackinaw City. The route from Makinaw City through Traverse City, Ludington and finally to Muskegon would probally be signed I 96. From outside of Muskegon in Fruitport to I 196 between Hudsonville and Zeeland would become I 296 with 296 running onto 196 to M6 then M6 becomes I 296. The final strecth of US 31 from Napier to Bus 94 would then allow I 196 to go to South Bend and connect with I 80/90. Of course another Interseting Idea would have I 90 run north at the new US 31 Interchange to the Bridge using that same path and then from the Bridge to I 94/I 90 seperation around Tomah, WI. Of course that is a MAJOR change and would require more money that what grows on anybodys money tree. Another option would use I 65 back tracked a few miles then run all the way north with both I 96 and I 196 ending into it. That is probally the most plausable. Mihsfbstadium

[edit] External links

I'd like to know exactly how adding a link to my Interstate 96 page counts as "spam." My page is perfectly valid and well-researched, and provides some more information that Wikipedia's I-96 page doesn't list. Frankly, if my page isn't "good enough" for inclusion as an external link, neither should the other ones be. --Larrysphatpage 07:41, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

See discussion at Talk:Interstate 59. —C.Fred (talk) 21:25, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Expansion of Article

I am currently working on building a comprehensive exit list, and expanding the article in general. It is currently incomplete, but should be finished in the next day or two. Hotstreets 08:04, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Good start! Does Michigan number exits sequentially or by mile marker? If it's by mile marker and there were no old exit numbers under the old system, then we only need a column for exit number. Let me (us) know when you've finished on the exit list; I'll wait to look through it (clean up, copyedit, etc.) until you're done, in case you're working out of an external editor for it. —C.Fred (talk) 12:29, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Michigan has used mile marker exit numbers for as long as I recall (very early 70s). There was that goofy short-lived experiment with dual numbering with metric, but I think we can safely ignore that as I'm not even sure that applied to I-96. -- KelleyCook 02:29, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

I have finished adding the exit guide! (Finally!) There are many rough edges, but I wanted to get the basic information in. It is definitely ready for some cleaning and copyediting. I will work on this a little bit in the coming day, but I am more interested in adding a "History" section to this article. Thanks for your help! Hotstreets 02:42, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Detroit Local/Express Configuration Expansion

I would like to expand this section to add a paragraph describing what a local/express configuration is, for those that may not be familiar. I will work on this in the next day, but I didn't want it to hold up putting in the rest of the exit list. Hotstreets 02:40, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

How about just a Wikilink to Local-express lanes? -- KelleyCook 01:22, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
I do believe I'm an idiot. Thanks, I didn't have any time last night to look for a page on this after I finished. That is definitely a good link, I will do as you suggested. Thanks again. Hotstreets 01:44, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
Unfortunately, you just ran afoul of another Wikirule. Don't wikilink a header: MoS:HEAD#Linking. :) -- KelleyCook 03:40, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citation of Standard Oil Map

I was looking for sources to supplement and/or replace the newsgroup postings that I currently have cited, and I have a Detroit Standard Oil Street map circa 1960. Do you know how I would properly cite this? This is my guess...

"Detroit Street Map" (circa 1960). Rand McNally and Company. Distributed by Standard Oil Division, American Oil Company.

I also have some Michigan maps from the era that I would like to cite, so I would like to get this right the first time. Thanks, Hotstreets 23:09, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Exit List Split Proposal

I really liked the recent addition of the table-ized "Junctions with other freeways" section, and I decided to run with the idea. First of all, the current "Exit List" section with the large tables is 32 KB long, and more than long enough to warrant its own separate article. As a result, I would like to propose that the existing tabular content of the "Exit List" section be moved to a separate article, tentatively titled Exit list of Interstate 96. In its place, I propose that the new "Exit List" section in the main article consist of a summary of the mile-based numbering/exit system in place for I-96, and an expanded version of the "Junctions with other freeways" section as a subtopic, creating a nice "summary-style" section. My proposed content for the Interstate 96 main article (including an updated "Junctions with other freeways" table) is located at User:Hotstreets/Sandbox. If nobody objects in a day or two, I would like to make these changes. Thanks, Hotstreets 07:12, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

I don't like it, because it's such a wide break from other articles in the project. I would rather see the exit list stay in the main article and the "Junctions with other freeways" section pared back to just junctions with other interstates. I think the junctions with other freeways were userful before the exit list was written, but now that we have the list, that can cover it. Personally, I'd also like to see the exit list condensed to a single list. —C.Fred (talk) 15:12, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Okay. Thanks, I must have misunderstood the main project page, when it says "A detailed list of exits, optionally on their own subpages, that the Interstate has." However, my rationale in suggesting the changes was that:

  • By the time that a comprehensive Route Description section is added, this article (currently 23KB) will almost certainly be over the ~30KB guideline for it to be split apart (WP:SUMMARY). The exit list is by far the largest portion of this article. In the absence of the suggested several paragraph summary, I feel that the "Junctions with other freeways" table covers the most important junctions on the freeway, and serves as an effective "summary" of the complete exit list.
  • In Michigan, all of the non-Interstate freeways that are listed in the "Junctions with other freeways" table are near or above Interstate highway quality, and serve as major thoroughfares (especially the non-Interstate freeways in Detroit). Since Interstate 96 is a much smaller and non-major route than, say, Interstate 95, I feel that these important junctions should have a place in the table.
  • I would also like the exit list as a single list, ideally, with only the Detroit local/express configuration separate (since it requires a different table setup). However, for people that might be using the article for reference, it might be much easier to have it split into portions; it would be much easier to click on a link to "Lansing to Novi exits" than to scroll a long ways down the page. As a sidenote, when building and editing the table, its large amount of markup (and subsequent translation to HTML) required a lot of time for the server (often taking 10+ seconds to preview even a minor change). That's why I originally split the table apart.

I appreciate your comments; but after reading my rationale behind my choices, please let me know if you still have concerns. Thanks again. – Hotstreets 17:34, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Hrm. Really, I guess part of the problem is that this is an interstate that isn't. Take I-95, for example: it has articles for each individual state it traverses, and that's where the exit lives. So, it does make sense to split the exit list out. For consistency, I would suggest that Interstate 96 in Michigan at least be a redirect to the article. —C.Fred (talk) 02:55, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

I have created that redirect, as per your suggestions. Yeah, in some ways, I-96 is more like a 3di article than a 2di article, due to its intrastate status. Thanks, Hotstreets 03:45, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

Okay, I have made the split. How do you best suggest that this be polished? I'm not sure that the link to the complete exit list is prominent enough. Hotstreets 05:52, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Major Cities table

I have replaced the existing Major Cities bulleted list with the same information in tabular format. While this may seem counterintuitive the way I've done it, I just wanted to explain: as the upcoming "Route Description" section grows in size, I will move this up there as a floating table and eliminate the "Major Cities" topic, as it becomes redundant in the presence of an exit list and accurate route description. Currently putting this table inside the empty Route Description section looks quite horrible. Hotstreets 07:02, 3 September 2006 (UTC)

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