User talk:Instantnood/Archive 4/PRC locator maps
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[purge]
[edit] Further discussion
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- I would disagree. If "Mainland China" is indeed as NPOV as claimed, we wont have a major dispute over its use which has remained unresolved to this day. If wordings are such an issue, we may as well remove all text and just describe it in the text message. Afterall, I remember reading somewhere in the wikihelp that maps and other illustrations should avoid text as far as possible so that the same image can be used in any language site.--Huaiwei 09:03, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
- Yah. The name of the place is China or PRC. Mainland China, in the case of these maps, is nebulous - it includes Hong Kong & Macau. Call it China, because that's exactly what it is. I don't think leaving it blank is all that useful either. (And Instantnoods contention that calling the PRC "China" is an offensive POV is just plain posh.) SchmuckyTheCat 14:27, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
- If you want to call it China, then include Taiwan and Arunachal Pradesh in a lighter shade. I can't believe you would look at a map of Mainland China without Taiwan and say, "call it China, because that's exactly what it is." What kind of blatant POV pushing is that? Doesn't the fact that the Chinese Wikipedia has overwhelmingly adopted "Mainland China" as an NPOV term say something to you? That the people who are most involved in the dispute (i.e. the Chinese Wikipedia community) know which term is troublesome and which term is safe? -- ran (talk) 16:42, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
- As far as I can see, the only folks who are pushing for the use of "Mainland China" either do it because they claim it is more "accurate" (in articles which talk about the PRC minus the two SARs), or because they dont like to be called Chinese. I hardly see anyone insisting to use "Mainland China" over the "PRC" just because it is "more nuetral" so to speak.--Huaiwei 16:48, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
- Then why has the Chinese Wikipedia adopted it? Does everyone on Chinese Wikipedia fall within those two categories? Which of these categories do I fall under?
- After months and months of wrangling over this, I still fail to see the rationale behind not adopting "Mainland China" in all cases where it applies, like here. My only conclusion is that most people on the English Wikipedia are too accustomed to the China/Taiwan dichotomy presented by the Western media to understand the situation fully. But if you insist on using "China", then Taiwan and Arunachal Pradesh should be included in a lighter shading. -- ran (talk) 17:00, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
- Oh is it? I just went to take a look at [1]. Why do you have "China" appearing in the "Asian countries" category? Should I probe further around the Chinese wikipedia?
- If after so many months, and the only conclusion you can have is that people here are too accustomed to thinking the China=PRC, than it is no wonder it has never been resolved. You have not addresed the issue of treating "Mainland China" as a country, and whether it is a viable alternative for "China" in all relevant cases even when it is technically more accurate. You have not addessed the tendency of "political agents" who promote the use of the word "Mainland China" in order to make space for the SARs and treating them on the same level as Mainland China itself to the detriment of the PRC's political integrity. NPOV? By utilising it to ease POV problems over Taiwan, it opens up an entire arena of POV problems in another aspect. I have yet to see you acknowledging or even commenting on this fact, however.--Huaiwei 17:12, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
- That's because Mainland China isn't a country! Why would it be found in a Category reserved for countries?? Hong Kong isn't found in that category either!! And feel free to dig deeper into the Chinese Wikipedia to see many examples of the use of 中国大陆 (Mainland China) there. It would be unacceptable there to use 中国 (China) to substitute for Mainland China or PRC on zh:, unlike the English Wikipedia, where this is rampant. And this proposal by Schmucky to use "China" is not helping matters. -- ran (talk) 02:32, 18 October 2005 (UTC)
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- Precisely. So mind explaining why "Mainland China" is a good substitute here when some folks insist on adding it to country lists, table, and even categories in the English wikipedia? That was precisely the main reason to oppose overusing it, yet some folks conveniently ignore it and insist on its use everywhere for the sake of NPOV. Try listing "Mainland China", "HK" and "Macau" in a list of countries and tell me if that is supposed to be NPOV? Next, that beloved category in the Chinese wikipedia has "China", the "PRC" and the "ROC" appearing as articles. At the same time, it has "China", "ROC" and "Taiwan" as its subcategories. Are you sure the Chinesepedia is a good template we can adopt over here? And since you mention HK isnt in that category because it is for countries, then are you saying that HK should be removed from country categories in Englishpedia? Someone is going to jump and smash right through the roof if this is so.--Huaiwei 05:48, 20 October 2005 (UTC)
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- As far as I can see, the only folks who are pushing for the use of "Mainland China" either do it because they claim it is more "accurate" (in articles which talk about the PRC minus the two SARs), or because they dont like to be called Chinese. I hardly see anyone insisting to use "Mainland China" over the "PRC" just because it is "more nuetral" so to speak.--Huaiwei 16:48, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
- If you want to call it China, then include Taiwan and Arunachal Pradesh in a lighter shade. I can't believe you would look at a map of Mainland China without Taiwan and say, "call it China, because that's exactly what it is." What kind of blatant POV pushing is that? Doesn't the fact that the Chinese Wikipedia has overwhelmingly adopted "Mainland China" as an NPOV term say something to you? That the people who are most involved in the dispute (i.e. the Chinese Wikipedia community) know which term is troublesome and which term is safe? -- ran (talk) 16:42, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
- Yah. The name of the place is China or PRC. Mainland China, in the case of these maps, is nebulous - it includes Hong Kong & Macau. Call it China, because that's exactly what it is. I don't think leaving it blank is all that useful either. (And Instantnoods contention that calling the PRC "China" is an offensive POV is just plain posh.) SchmuckyTheCat 14:27, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
- I would disagree. If "Mainland China" is indeed as NPOV as claimed, we wont have a major dispute over its use which has remained unresolved to this day. If wordings are such an issue, we may as well remove all text and just describe it in the text message. Afterall, I remember reading somewhere in the wikihelp that maps and other illustrations should avoid text as far as possible so that the same image can be used in any language site.--Huaiwei 09:03, 17 October 2005 (UTC)
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