User talk:Indianstar

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[edit] Barnstar

You have done a really good job on the Forward Caste article. Well, here's an original barnstar for the original article Forward Caste. --N R S | ^T/_M\^B 16:32, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

		The Original Barnstar
		To Indianstar for creating and expanding Forward Caste article and adding a lot of citations. \| --N R S \| ^T/_M\^B 16:32, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Archiving talk pages

Hi! I really appreciate your contributions and fully endorse the above barnstar. Dropped by to lend a tip: I saw you blanking[1] your talk page. You need not do that. You can archive them. See Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page. utcursch | talk 13:20, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Forward castes

Hi, thanks for taking the time to leave a note on my talk page about the copyedit flag I dropped (and for not taking it personally, since I now see that you've put a lot of work into the article!). Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner; I've been out of town and away from Wikipedia.

I made some changes in the first few sections, mostly things like capitalization, punctuation and subject-verb agreement. Please review when you get a chance and make sure I haven't altered the sentences to say anything incorrect. I know almost nothing about the Indian caste system and so I am trying to preserve the sense of what you have written while changing the style. It's quite a long page so I wanted to get some feedback from you before doing more extensive copyediting. Thanks again! Dave Rosoff 19:35, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kamal Haasan

Please vote for the Kamal Haasan article to become an article to be improved to be featured here, Wikipedia:Article Creation and Improvement Drive#Kamal Haasan Prince Godfather 18:11, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Archiving

The earlier contents of your talk page are available here. You can edit this version, copy all the content and move it to a new subpage (such as User talk:Indianstar/archive1).

Later, when the current version gets too big, you can archive it by moving it to User talk:Indianstar/archive2.

As about changing the name in Barnstar, it's entirely your choice. Anyway, your earlier userpage redirects to current page. But, if you want to change it, nobody is stopping you :)

Also, you can copy the barnstar to your page or your a subpage of your userpage (say User:Indianstar/Recognition or User:Indianstar/Awards), like I've done at User:Utcursch/Recognition. utcursch | talk 12:07, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ranga

I think there is another movie by the name Ranga (where Rajni kidnaps a small boy etc) Doctor Bruno

Done. tell me if there are spelling mistakes Doctor Bruno 15:39, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] YouTube

	Thank you for contributing to Wikipedia! You recently added an external link to YouTube in an article. It has been removed because the link pointed to a non-encyclopedic source. Per WP:COPYRIGHT: External sites can possibly violate copyright. Linking to copyrighted works is usually not a problem, as long as you have made a reasonable effort to determine that the page in question is not violating someone else's copyright. If it is, please do not link to the page. Knowingly and intentionally directing others to a site that violates copyright has been considered a form of contributory infringement in the United States (Intellectual Reserve v. Utah Lighthouse Ministry). Also, linking to a page that illegally distributes someone else's work sheds a bad light on Wikipedia and its editors. If the site in question is making fair use of the material, linking is fine. Please refer to Wikipedia's policy on external links for more information. --thadius856_talk 05:59, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Just figured I'd inform you that I replied to your message on my talk page. thadius856_talk 07:00, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Replied again. :) thadius856_talk 08:02, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Idea for new Bot

I'm not sure if you have my talk page watched, but I responded to your comment there. Just figured I'd let you know. thadius856_{talk|airports|neutrality} 18:16, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Talk pages

Your interaction in talk pages is of a little concern. Please don't insert your text within the other person's talk. If you want to answer point by point, leave the original as it is, copy the text again and then type your replies. Mention the original words in italics or in a quotation.

Please understand that it will be very difficult for others when you do like what you did in Karunanidhi's article talk pages

And, try please make that talk page a little more sensible (in appearence - I am not questioning what you write, but how you write is also important) It is a mess now and no one can make out who said what Doctor Bruno 06:26, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your suggestions. Your suggestions are really nice and I agree with your views. Will modify contents as suggested. --Indianstar 06:39, 23 December 2006 (UTC)

Till date I am not able to understand how I become Anti Hindu as per your allegations. Is it that you are against the principles of Hinduism if you ask for reservations FOR HINDU DALITS. Why is that any one who is favouring reservations be anti-hindu. Can you quote one instance, at least one, when I have spoken against hinduism. Please note that not everyone who supports reservations and tamil language are not anti hindu. Anti-Hindi is not anti-hindu and pro-reservations is not anti-hindu. Doctor Bruno 02:44, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

You are reading in between words.I protest your remarks. Your opinions on reservations,yourself being Pro-tamil,Anti-Hindi are not relevant to our specific discussions about Hinduism. Please do not mix subjects.Can you show one sentence in which I called you or anybody as Anti-Hindu. You made some implicit allegations against Hinduism(without naming it) like people say Gods cannot understand "Tamil" and certain people say using local language in temples is defilement.(It is obvious from events quoted by you that you are referring about Hinduism.).I only used words "Regarding your allegations against hinduism" and did not use words that you are "Anti-Hindu".Even in that reply I have only talked about other religions in high esteem.I never used derogatory language against any group or religion or individuals in my wikipedia edits..I have never given my opinions against reservations for Dalits.If you update like this in Talk pages without mentioning full text of our conversation,people will draw wrong conclusions.Anybody reading full text of conversation(including yourself calling certain groups as racists and fanatics) will understand that I expressed high opinion about all religions including hinduism and did not call anybody as Anti-Hindu.In my personal opinion,nobody should feel proud of calling themselves as Anti-Hindi.However you are entitled to have your own view on Hindi.I am as much Tamilian as you are.I will update our talks regarding Hinduism in this page so that people can form independent opinions --Indianstar 11:09, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Great graphics (Political parties)

Hello Indianstar, Your graphics on the political parties is just great!! Himalayanashoka 09:35, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Party Image

Can you recreate the party image in such a manner that it suits the article correctly. It is a real mess there in the India article. Chanakyathegreat 14:28, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Creating new images for Demograhic and Cultural section

Can you create two images one for Demograhic section and other for the cultural section like the one's you created for the India article. These two images must contain all the people from all states of India, atleast one from one state and in the cultural image one culture from each state of India, be it a dance form or anyother culture.

Chanakyathegreat 14:43, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I think you meant non-copyrighted images. Regarding the culture, i don't think it is necessary to have religion as a theme but various dance forms, including folk dances festivals, celebrations, dress code, yoga etc. You will find free to use images at wikimedia commons at http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Main_Page Also you can download and use images from www.flickr.com especially those which are not copyrighted like the following http://www.flickr.com/photos/sallylondon/140933534/ one that has some rights reserved as copyright status in the additional information section. Chanakyathegreat 16:00, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

The main problem with that image is that it is not possible to view that image on a 15' screen. I had to slide to the right and left. The main article is not fitting perfectly because of this image. Either you divide the image into two. Four part on the upper and four part into lower and make it a single image. Then add it. It will perfectly fit into it or else just increase the height of the image (not in wikipedia). And then set the pixel to 570px like the economic list. Everything will be alright. Chanakyathegreat 16:22, 2 January 2007 (UTC) Chanakyathegreat 16:22, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

All charts and no real images. I meant if you can combine all images into one main image to be put on the Demograhic section. Increase the height of the Image that will help in the font size not compromised. (by being lengthy). The Grand Canyon problem is solved. I think it is better to add the scroll bar to the image. All the best for the work. Chanakyathegreat 17:21, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

No need to alter the image anymore. The problem has been solved. Chanakyathegreat 17:24, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I think there will be opposition to that and mostly it will be removed. Just wait and watch. Chanakyathegreat 17:39, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Political parties image ?

Dear Indianstar, Please do not remove the political parties image from the India page. It gave a very clear picture of a stable democracy & people's choice. Please do let me know if you need any help on this graphics and others as well for the India page. Would love to help you in realizing your ideas. (I am a software product design expert by profession!!). Himalayanashoka 13:26, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your offer for colloborating on India article,will seek your help when required. India being important article and frequently accessed page,we need to develop consensus for inserting major contents. It is being discussed now about how we can improve contents.--Indianstar 13:53, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rewording on Talk:India

I saw your posting on Chanakyathegreat's page. I don't know that "colonization" will cut ice with them, since that's what the text said in the first place (in early December): "Colonised by the British East India company starting the early 18th century ...." They vehemently objected to that, started edit wars, which resulted in Himalayanashoka getting banned for two weeks. (See Talk:India/archive_18#Formation_of_India_Information for a blow-by-blow description, and to see how much time was spent by well-meaning editors in trying to engage them.) Anyway, Nichalp and I have suggested a new rewording in the Talk:India#Occupation section that will perhaps satisfy them. Himalayanashoka has been banned for the next two months, but perhaps Chanakyathegreat will reply. Please also read the description of the usage for "occupation" or "occupied" in the section Talk:India#Credible_Sources_and_British_.22Occupation.22_of_India. Please also feel free to respond to the suggested new rewording. Thanks! Fowler&fowler «Talk» 18:08, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you for the note.

--Natkeeran 22:34, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re:SVG images

Conversion from raster to vector format is not possible. The best thing that can be done is to use a tracing utility that finds and traces outlines and converts it to svg. A popular tool for vector rendering is inkscape which also comes with a traicng utility. Regards, =Nichalp «Talk»= 16:02, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

All graphs should be in svg format ideally. It isn't too difficult actually since inkscape has grids and spcifies exact pixel values. =Nichalp «Talk»= 09:22, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

Pretty good for a beginer. You're learning the ropes of the trade pretty fast. However the image is not perfect, and have put up my critique on Image talk:IndianEconomicForecast.SVG for the improvement. Regards, =Nichalp «Talk»= 13:17, 20 January 2007 (UTC)

I have replied to your latest post. =Nichalp «Talk»= 15:03, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] AFD

It is a clear nomination in bad faith. Removing it would not be wise. Counteract it instead by adding appropropriate comments and justifying its inclusion here by wikipedia policies and standards. =Nichalp «Talk»= 11:06, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] AfD Nomination: Forward Castes

An editor has nominated the article Forward Castes for deletion, under the Articles for deletion process. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and has explained why in the nomination (also see What Wikipedia is not and Deletion policy). Your opinions on why the topic of the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome: participate in the discussion by editing Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Forward Castes. Add four tildes like this ˜˜˜˜ to sign your comments. You can also edit the article Forward Castes during the discussion, but do not remove the "Articles for Deletion" template (the box at the top of the article), this will not end the deletion debate. Jayden54Bot 21:44, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Political Integration of India

Dear Indianstar

Its very nice to see that you have made very good additions of Political Integration of India (very original work by Rama's Arrow)! Just great! I strongly feel that this should come in the lead as a small link. Currently the lead para is derogatorily British heavy and request you to change it to the previous version of "18:33, 25 January 2007" http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=India&oldid=103191457.

Something like this:"Despite countless invasions over thousands of years, Indian culture and society has been quite resilient, that it has either thrown away or completely absorbed any foreign influences, with the social fabric largely remaining unchanged and intact. The present India emerged in 1947, after the subcontinental populace overthrew foreign occupation by widespread use of nonviolent resistance and integrated it into a modern democratic nation-state." The word "integrated" could have the link to 'Political Integration of India'.

I would also request you to look at the "right hand info box column" of an earlier version of India page of "20:34, 14 September 2006" http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=India&oldid=75760563. As this article is about India since the beginning, we have to state the formation as Indus Valley Civilization. It is also important to remove the mention of UK and instead put the link of Political Integration of India (PII). In fact, in this old version had that PII link under the link 'Nation-State' but was removed by foreign authors.

Also as a subtle and sophisticated suggestion to you, the word 'Independence' in the rest of the main India page should also be changed to phrases like "emerged as a nation-state in 1947' or 'since attaining nationhood'. The direct word 'Independence' should be avoided. This word itself glorifies the foreigners. Would also request you avoid words such as 'colonies', e.g., "French colonies" could be changed to words such as "French trade-posts". Hope you get the essence!!!

As an advice please look into the punctuation in your contributions. We do not want your good contributions to invite changes. Other people will come in the guise of improving punctuations and put in foreign views.

Cheers to you and continue the good work!!

I don't agree with some of your points. India article is being read by around 16000 people on daily basis.(Most of them are international viewers). If we write India article in Patriotic flavour with lot of chest thumbing statements then it will irritate readers. Tone and style should reflect that contents are facts and not emotional views. I value your patriotism. But wikipedia is not the place to show our patriotism. --Indianstar 17:39, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Validity of Citations

Sir,

I respect you. Do you think that this people react honestly? How many times I cited and replied for the questions of these people. In one way or another they are simply asking the same thing but not understanding. They are in the stand that, "No experts view Ayyavazhi". Are the universities not of experts? Also simply as a part time job they people deleting Ayyavazhi, and leaving simply a group of words in the edit summary that "Removing unnotable sect" . I seperately cite for Ayyavazhi as a seperate religion, it's notability, it's presence across India all from even University papers. You say, What more I can do?

As a recent thing, see the edit summary here left by an user for removing Ayyavazhi, "removing trolling user Paul Raj's edits who are in edge of 3RR" Is this a valid reason for removing Ayyavazhi? I was blocked 3 times for violating 3RR, one now, from which Iam just in. I always ask peope to discuss before editing. And I always do. No people, even admins are not caring to. They simply revert where ever they saw Ayyavazhi. Even few thousand jews and zoroastrians are noted in the article. But why Ayyavazhi?

By such actions are the community is saying that, the universities are not valid? or They dependent to some body? or They are not a third party agents? especially when such universities are such a credible ones like Madras University, which is one of the oldest in India. Sir, pls view from a neutral Point. I was not even placing historian views? But that of Universities, accredited as facts. Why these people are unitedly right against me?

Sir please go through the citations. Why these people treating me like this? In recent discussions they planned for some actions against me? What crime I've done? On what base they are opposing Ayyavazhi from being found here? Right now the 10th standard History text book of Kerala says that, Vaikundar was the first reformer to launch the political as well as a social renaisance. It is a government publication. In that case, how many people know Vaikundar as a first reformer of India, when compared to Raja Ram Mohan Roy? That is the dificulty. People are of less knowledge about Ayya and Ayyavazhi. But this reason doesn't mean that no such person and such religion exists. This is what I told to these users. Then I too cited them all with even university papers. Please tell why these people behave like this? You told me to go through the community conscience. When it is a 'proven fact' that a communty in a wrong conscience mindless of valid sources9even as per wiki rules) , then how we should approve that community mindless of the project's (wikipedia) rules?

Please consider. Thanks. - _Д |Ж|_Д 18:08, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

I value your sincere contributions to Ayyavazhi related articles. Nobody questions existence of Ayyavazhi religion. They only oppose mentioning Ayyavazhi in India page. I did some research to check whether your contents can be supported. I found that only 7500 people mentioned as belonging to other religions in Tamilnadu during 2001 census.

More than 34% of people in certain districts of Arunachal pradesh have mentioned that they belong to some tribal religion. Around 1500 religions are indicated by various people in census. This shows census does not have bias and accepts people's religion as it is. (They will definitely not record people's religion as Hindu if they say that they belong to Ayyavazhi religion). Apart from census, Government sponsored national surveys has conducted large scale surveys in all districts of India. It also does not mention anything about Ayyavazhi. Wikipedians may consider Ayyavazhi's inclusion if people mention their religion as Ayyavazhi in next Indian census. When citations exist to support multiple views then credibility and major views come into picture. Probably if you put your Ayyavazhi vis a vis Jews/Parsis argument then my opinion is Jews/Parsis name also can be excluded from India page. Others may contradict my views. I am aware of all your citations, university papers , books etc. So I suggest you to not to extend our discussions by putting those references. Continue contributing to Ayyavazhi related articles. This issue should not reduce your spirit of good contributions to Ayyavazhi related articles. I personally like Ayyavazhi's concepts like its efforts to establish caste free society. --Indianstar 03:48, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes that's what Iam telling. If those few thousands jews are notable then definilely Ayyavazhi. Any way I respect you. But in the articles such as Dharma, Vishnu, Thrimurthi etc, Ayyavazhi views are definilely notable there because the views on those subjects are far away from those of other religions. So, here in this demographics sections if I drop the issue as per the present conscience, those people don't take this as an acceptance for the removal of Ayyavazhi from those articles.

Why Iam telling this because, Ayya Vaikunda Avatharam was a district Holiday for three dists. Even Thaippusam (which has no holiday) was noted in the article, But it took a long discussion, and a block for 24 hrs (for me) for reverting their undiscussed edits, for making those people understand that. So such things shouldn't be repeated. Even admins are against me. Only so Iam telling all these - _Д =|Θ|=_Д _Paul| 19:03, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

One more new thing, see here. Also see the discussion based on it here. They are supposed to be going to take some action. For what? Editing on basis of valid citations? Also note one sentence, "It is almost like the religion is being invented on Wikipedia". Who invented what? Then what about the valid citations I provided? It was also complined that many users discussed with me and lost thier time and patience. See the discussions of them with me. Does in any place I break wikilogic? Also in any palce I made personal attacks? I don't understand such behaviours. - _Д =|Θ|=_Д _Paul| 20:43, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Also see here, people had started removing Ayyavazhi from other articles such as Dharmic religions etc. - _Д =|Θ|=_Д _Paul| 21:40, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

I cannot speak for others but I doubt everything you write because I do not trust you. You have shown in many instances that you care more about promoting what you believe is a religion over sticking true to Wikipedia. For instance, you tried to sneak in your pov in an article merely few minutes after 24 hours to avoid breaking the 3RR rule in law but still broke it in spirit and were rightfully banned for it. Again, on Eastern philsophy page you went ahead and alphabetized the ordering to put Ayyavazhi at start of the page before Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. To me it is clear that you are trying to use wikipedia as an advertisement/catalog to promote Ayyavazhi. Even your valid "university papers" are not so valid when one looks closely at them. First of all handful of papers do not mean anything even if they were published in a university. I have seen many publications that are worth crap. Further more, you tend to read what you want and try to create things out of nowhere. Even in some of your citations this much is obvious. You have done great harm to wikipedia by your antics and I strongly suggest that you step back and go read what wikipedia is about. It is NOT a platform for advertisement. A

Also, Indianstar - I definitely question whether or not Ayyavazhi is a separate religion. --Blacksun 13:54, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

For Blacksun:- Iam not intrested in hurting you personally with some 'swording words'. But instead want to say hardly that, "I move towards valid citation". And in the Eastern philosophy, how would you confirm that iam careing in escaping from '3RR'. I found in my browsing that, somebody removed Ayyavazhi and called it as a 'mere cult' in discussion inspite of all citation. So I reverted with proper replies in talk page. That is what happened. Also I heared the very same charge (by you or somebody else) that Iam carefully editing after minutes, after the duration of 3RR period. How you people conclude that? I, when informed that I was blocked for 3RR, I followed the complaint page, and there i accedentally found that the edites haven't come in 24hrs time, and so I claimed. But quoting it, the users there focus me similar to 'a criminal'. I wonder. Also the Eastern Philosophy is wrote as per alphabetical order. Are you telling that, Only Ayyavazhi should be moved right to the bottom of the article breaking completely the ethics? And no need for such thing, wonderfully you had completely deleted the whole Ayyavazhi section! Also on what logic you are questioning the citation I left there before my replies for your questions? Go there and see the replies. And writing article related to Ayyavazhi is advertising Ayyavazhi? Then the users who are contributing to Hindu articles should be called as Hindu spammers and so on. How could you call the citation as 'crap'. And University papers are not "my valid citations" but that of wikipedia. I wonder if you call university papers are as non sense. The universities are independent third parties regarding reserchs. Do you question it? If not, then how could you reject the citations from them?

I have been a scientist long enough to know that just because something is published does not make it credible. Please try to understand that their are many levels of credibility. ONE book by an unknown author does not give you the credibility to claim the things you have been claiming. --Blacksun 01:36, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

For IndianStar:- Sir, so far internet sources regarding Ayyavazhi is too low. That's really a risk. I've told this already in several talk pages. Even English works are too low in Ayyvazhi compared to in Tamil. But the books in Tamil about Ayyavazhi is good enough to cite the Ayyavazhi related works. Very few reaserch is on Ayyavazhi from outside. See that the university papers cited are all come within last ten years. But these people are simply hurting me in several occations with words close to personal attacks. They are telling, even University papers are not valid! Iam once again telling, " I have many other sources to cite Ayyavazhi as a seperate religion from some historians etc.. But I focus to these University papers are uncounterably valid third party sources. But see they always says "one mere university book" etc, and call all my works as 'not trusrt worthy'. See the Talk:India/Ayyavazhi, Inspite of my lack of time and with utilising high effort, I use to answer all their questions. I only edit after discussing. But except some users, these people including administrators don't do so. In one occation i waited for one week time after answering to their questions. Since no replies I reverted adding Ayyavazhi. They all marched against me. Respecting you I withdrew from that issue. Immedietly, Ayyavazhi is removed from the Dharmic religions article. See the long discussion in it's talk page. People all, are mindless of the talk pages and intrested in reverting without responding to the replies there. On that series, now see, Ayyavazhi is removed from Eastern philosophy saying it as a 'mere cult'. They don't even utilise a few seconds to the citations there which are strong against thier POV. If some five users joined-up, then thay may do any thing, against any users, any contributions, any citation, and even delete all edits completely.

As a hot news See the comment of one user here. One of the complaint there is, "Ayyavazhi page is large" as Hinduism etc.. And so he found discomfort.

And a couple of days before see a new page was started for commenting me. User:BostonMA/Paul Raj RfC. A few days before you complimented me sayngs "Keep up the good contributions related to Ayyavazhi article". You know, may be this be the first and only motivation I everheared from wikiusers. All else were charges and marchings againt. And after all those see, now Iam charged that I was harming wikipedia. Let them 'hang me'. No such 'harmers' should be left to harm something else. - _Д =|Θ|=_Д _Paul| 19:52, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] RfC

Hi, I've started an RfC Talk:India#Request_for_Comment:_Adding_new_material_to_the_India_page_history_section. Any comments and feedback, at your convenience, will be welcome! Fowler&fowler «Talk» 04:22, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Politics

Hi I believe, though am not sure, the picture on top of the Politics section on India page was your contribution? Pardon me if the assumption is wrong, but there is a slight error, which I thought would discuss with you (even if it isnt yours:)) You see, the symbols shown, there are two problems:

1. The Congress from 1950-1979. The symbol shown is a palm, which is ok, as it is their electoral symbol today, but it wasnt so in that period, was Gandhi's charkha for a long time, till the splits, after which they used some others. The palm came about later (not sure of the dates but was certainly used in 1984)

2. The Janata party and Janata Dal coalition symbols. This is indeed an error, as, the symbols shown right now for both is that used by Janata Party (even today) which is different from the then Janata Dal. The symbol of Janata Dal was (it is frozen now, due to splits) a cart wheel, in green back ground. The two are different parties, (though may have contained the same people).

The first is is trivial, best left like this, as it is the same party, but the second I believe can do with a correction. I tried to search for the Janata Dal symbol on the net, but couldnt come up with any.

Do let me know your views, and we can work towards it's rectification. ThanksAJ-India 04:29, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

Sure I will try and locate the image. I had done a quick search on googlewhich didnt throw up much. Looks like due to the fact that it isnt being used now (frozen due to splits) it isnt readily available. However, am sure it can be found, will do some more searches. In the meanwhile if you find it, go ahead and update it:) AJ-India 19:56, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ayyavazhi replies

Friend, I respect you. I am stepping back. But Iam again telling that this doesn't mean that Iam not willing that Ayyavazhi is not seperate.

The main reason that Ayyavazhi's are mostly considered officially as a Hindu crowd because, the social and economical back ground and poor social infrastructure of Ayyavazhi society. Please see this link I explined clearly.

For your question about 'The Hindu' I don't know why. But see Ayyavazhi festival Ayya Vaikunda Avatharam is celebrated with holidays in three dists which is new in Tamil Nadu. (i.e) no festivals is declared as a holiday for more than one district(for local holdays). It's a fact. See it's surprising that, such an influential festival is not found in any of the Hindu's editions?!!! I don't know why. But possibly because of the lack of news coverage and limited editions. The nearest Tamil Nadu Edition of The Hindu from the Swamithoppe is from Madurai which is some 250 kms away.

Layola College matter, I don't know the reason. Also don't know how the survey is made.

The Tamil News papers; The Daily Thanthi and Dinakaran is avilable with epaper only from two, three months ago. Dina malar, the epaper facility is not available for all editions. Do you have user account in those ePaper editions of the papers, Daily Thanthi and Dinakaran? If not please create. I'll give you the papeges and dates of those papers in Nagercoil edition. You may see 'all papers' calling them As Ayyavazhi makkal or as Ayyavazhi anbukkodi makkal instead of calling as Hindus.

- _Д =|Θ|=_Д _Paul| 18:47, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Yes, but what i told is in such a educated area it's hard to find a degree holder in Ayyavazhi society. Iam from Kanyakumari; my dist's literacy rate is not less than 90%. In such an atmosphere Ayyavazhi is as low as possible in standard of living. Then, Nagercoil edition of Dinamalar is not available with epaper. Do have epaper user account for Daily Thanthi and Dinakaran? If so I shall provide a set of links which call the crowd as Ayyavazhi followers. Mind that it won't call worshippers such as Vishnavites smartas or sivites while reporting religious festivals in vaishnavite and sivite temples. But when in Ayyavazhi festivals the papers call them as 'Ayyavazhi makkal' 'Ayyavazhiyinar' or 'Ayyavazhi Anbukkodimakkl' etc... As a direct reference, if needed I shall scan a news paper report from Daily thanthi which calling it as 'Ayyavazhi samayam' and Balaparajapathi Adikalar as the religious reader etc.. It was from Daily thanthi dated 4/3/2006. Daily thanthi was not available with epaper facility then. ==> _Д =|Ω|=_Д_Paul| 18:06, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Also commonly, some thing I really wonder about. Ayya Vaikunda Avatharam is celebrated mainly in swamithoppe with district holiday for three districts. Even though, the Dinamalar's webedition doesn't mention about any such festival even in the Kanyakumari district section. See [[2]]. I don't know why these are neglected in web and wondered about. See even a festival in some minor temple is noted there, the(பார்வதிபுரம் கோயில்)festival. ==> _Д =|Ω|=_Д_Paul| 18:26, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Just before, I got the report of declaration for the holiday. [3]. ==> _Д =|Ω|=_Д_Paul| 18:35, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

One link from Dinamani [4] ==> _Д =|Ω|=_Д_Paul| 19:03, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

See thi link from www.Christian-Bible.com, [5]. See the 43rd foot note in that link. ==> _Д =|Ω|=_Д_Paul| 21:18, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

At present only a few are with me wich are available on digital edition, which call the people as Ayyavazhi followers instead of Hindus, see

Dinakaran, Nagercoil Edition, January 20 Saturday, Page 3 (top)
Daily Thanthi, Nagercoil Edition, January 30, Page 19, (left top to bottom).

Also Dinamalar, But it is not available with epaper facility. ==> _Д =|Ω|=_Д_Paul| 18:04, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[6] - The news report says that a local holiday was declared for Ayya Vaikundasamy festival and NOT for Ayaavazhi festival.
[7] - There was nothing on that page pertaining to Ayyavazhi

Such scarce references denote that this faith has a very minor impact on the people of Tamil Nadu and has no evidence of the so-called 'thousands of worship centres' throughout India. Such minor sects do not warrant its inclusion in such numerous unrelated pages. Thanks Parthi ^{talk/contribs} 00:17, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fonts

What fonts are you using? If you use a generic sans font, (ie select the type as sans), the problem should be solved. As a side note, there are some charts in Economy of India which could be svg'fied. Regards, =Nichalp «Talk»= 18:18, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ayyavazhi removal

User:Indianstar, I respect your suggestion and stepped back from a couple of discussions on Talk:Eastern philosophy and Talk:India. Also the discusssion is going on in the talk Page of Ayyavazhi. If you clearly see, you'll notice that how neutral the discussion is handled by them there. But btw, see what is going on on the other corner.

Ayyavazhi is removed from the following pages in one day,

Religion
Symmetry
List of symbols
Dharmic religion
Eastern religion
Comparing Eastern and Western religious traditions
Murugan
Inclusivism
South India
Religious symbolism
Duryodhana
Names of God
Religious text
Most Holy Place
Soul
Satan
Pilgrimage
Religion in India

See Ayyavazhi is even removed from Religious symbolism, Names of God, List of symbols etc... which are listing articles. See the often repeated edit summaries "removed the minor and non- notable sect". Then what about the citations I left. Also Iam again saying one daily thanthi report and Dinakaran report respectively calls clearly as "குறித்து அய்யாவழி சமயத் தலைவர் பால.பிரஜாபதி", "இதையொட்டி குமரி மாவட்டம் சாமி தோப்பில் அய்யா வழி சமய மாநாடு உள்பட", etc... Those are from leading tamil Dailies. Iam once again telling that, I will scan those reports if needed. What more I can? What in their vision is NPOV? Even on one edit summary he noted "see the discussion page of Ayyavazhi", and in another as, "removed the minor and non- notable sect. There is no evidence for the notability of this religion outside its own literature." See there, I've cited with news paper reports, Historian views, even university books etc... for the autonomuse nature of Ayyavazhi. Also one more thing! --> see The religious symbols image Image:ReligijneSymbole.svg carries also ayyavazhi symbol along with 15 other symbols. For removing that image this user replaces it with Image:Religious syms.png, calling "replaced with a NPOV image" in edit summaries.

This image is removed from,

See friend, what is going on. This is what usual here. Some one or two people use to form an union and going on reverting. Friend, What I want to do? You say, I will repect you. - ==> _Д =|Ω|=_Д_Paul| 18:31, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Friend, now see Another user in the Tamil people page; claim citation for "the Ayyavazhi Festival, Ayya Vaikunda Avataram, is predominantly celebrated in the southern districts of Kanyakumari, Tirunelveli, and Thoothukudi.[41] ^{[citation needed]}". Those three dists are official holidays, even other festival without holidays are noted there. No questions for that. But marching against me. See [[8]]. the addition is made as per the discussion there. But see now a new section is started stating that Ayyavazhi as a religion is debated even in the Ayyavazhi article. I provide citations from historian viw, Leading news papers, and University papers. Then what debate? He is telling that "By adding Ayyavazhi the article is loosing it's good nature" What to do? - ==> _Д =|Ω|=_Д_Paul| 19:09, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Please reread my comment on Tamil people talk page about the festival. You are completely distorting it. I CLEARLY ASKED "How you can say that it is predominantly celeberated from the citation that you provided?" The citation barely mentions one line on declaring that day as a holiday - their is absolutely NOTHING about its popularity relative to other holidays in the district. Maybe such things are "clear" to you but they are not clear to me. That is what the debate is: the fact that you continuously embellish and distort facts to give undue weight to your POV. --Blacksun 11:00, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ayyavazhi Outside views

Also Please see this link. Iam not using this as a wiki citation, but only to give you an idea about Ayyavazhi, especially how it was discussed there against Hinduism.

See also one important thing: At the bottom of the article see the references; The book Religion and Subaltern agency is refered there, and with also its support the article is being written. You might have known that people here told that I was manipulating the citations. ==> _Д =|Ω|=_Д_Paul| 19:52, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

See the history of Ayyavazhi written in Tamil. See the difference, and mentioned Ayyavazhi as different from Hinduism. ==> _Д =|Ω|=_Д_Paul| 19:59, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Blog entries are normally not considered as good citation unless it is created by notable personality. Newspapers reports can be used to show that some Ayyavazhi followers consider themselves as separate religion. I agree with Blacksun that we don't have credible evidence to prove that majority of Ayyavazhi followers consider themselves as separate religion. --Indianstar 05:27, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Response

Please see response to your message on my talk page.--Blacksun 18:55, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Reservation in India

The article on Reservation in India looks pathetic as per my opinion. Its badly constructed (probably too much editing) and too many POV statements. I am thinking of cleaning this up but may need some help with this issue. Let me know if you can help me with the editing as I am pretty new with Wikipedia. Wikiality123 14:04, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your message on my talkpage. I will work on the pro and anti reservation parts but its also my opinion that this article is too long. I think the part on TN and its history of antibrahmanism can be moved to another wiki entry. But its just my opinion. I will work on it and start updating it in a week. Wikiality123 20:08, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Images

That is true, i have removed those images. The problem with those images is the resolution. For any meaningful data to be realised from the same, it should be displayed at a resolution of >400px. Unfortunately this causes problems at lower resolutions, (800x600 which we test) resulting in the display of stacked up text. Secondly, the political image would be too 'loud' for this page. I am committed to improving the images for India-related articles (as with wikipedia on the whole), but the resolution is proving to be an issue here. =Nichalp «Talk»= 09:58, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Oh no, setting it at 400px causes the text to bunch up to the right/left and makes it difficult to read. =Nichalp «Talk»= 10:19, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

I don't think it would be of any help. It would suffice on the sub pages though where a user can click the image for more details. =Nichalp «Talk»= 10:35, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ayyavazhi

Image:Avathara oorvalam.jpg

Image:Avathara oorvalam 1.jpg

Image:Ayya avatar oorvalam photograph.jpg

It seems that you too have agreed with User:Black Sun; you have told that the tamil News papers itself doesn't mentions Ayyavazhi as seperate religion. I've told that the Tamil News papers call them as 'Ayyavazhi makkal' or 'Ayyavazhi baktharkal' instead of calling them as Hindus or as 'ayya baktharkal'. This, calling them as 'Ayyavazhi worshippers'(with the religions name) itself is a good proof that Ayyavazhi society is seen out side Hinduism. Apart from this now see the images where these leading news papers call it as 'Ayya vazhi samayam'.

Then User:Black Sun have also questioned the present 'layout of Ayyavazhi article'. How he could do it? All are based on citations. Then, scriptures, holy places, worship centers, etc - all are seperate for Ayyavazhi and so it is mentioned with seperate sub-headings. On what logic he is questioning all these? It seems that you too accept those things.

Then User:Black Sun also told that he won't use News papers as primary source. Yes, to some extend I too. Also throw away all other historian views. But what about the university papers? Perhaps I may not have provide solid enough sources from university papers regarding the 'large spread of Ayyavazhi'. But how a case study on Ayyavazhi from such a creadible agent such as Madras University is unconsidereably neglected as 'mere one university paper'?

I might not have told all these now, since so far they all, don't even find time to reply to me, but instead go on deleting. But am telling because you too seems to doubt me and agree with them. Also he also told that you have asked me some good questions but I don't ever answer you reasonably. Friend, were all my answers to you mere non-senses? ==> _Д =|Ω|=_Д_Paul| 18:57, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Following are the views expressed by me to User:Blacksun and I stand by that statement.

1) Tamil Newspaper citations are available to show that some Ayyavazhi followers believe Ayyavazhi as separate religion. There is no way to establish whether that "some" is majority or minority.

2) Credible evidences are not available to show that Majority of Ayyavazhi followers think Ayyavazhi is totally separate from Hinduism.

3) In my personal opinion(Wikipedia community may differ) only credible evidence to prove above point is either census or surveys. For example if census says India's population is 1 Billion and if some university paper says it could be 1.2 billion, I will take census because it is more credible source to estimate population. When census has enumerated 1650 religions (some of them are followed by tribal people whose literacy rate may be within single digit) there is no known bias available for group of census officers operating in different regions to club millions of Ayyavazhi followers along with Hinduism. There is no way to believe that people living in districts with 90% literacy rates are not able to say their religion correctly to census officers.

4) Newspaper citations are available to prove the existence of Ayyavazhi followers in large numbers in districts pointed out by you and celebration of Ayyavazhi festivals in grand ways. But that is not a proof that Ayyavazhi is different from Hinduism. There are many variants available in Hinduism like Shaivites, Vaishnavites, Lingayats etc etc.Different festivals are celebrated by each variants of Hinduism. --Indianstar 11:51, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Can you kindly post your analysis in the ongoing discussions at Ayyavazhi page. --Blacksun 10:43, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

User:Indianstar, You told, "There are many variants available in Hinduism like Shaivites, Vaishnavites, Lingayats etc etc.Different festivals are celebrated by each variants of Hinduism." which shows that you seemingly comparing Ayyavazhi with those Hindu sect. It is to what I say 'no', by cited those news papers. It those reports (from the images placed above) see those papers call Ayyavazhi as "அய்யாவழி சமயம்". They don't call (during reporting festivals) the other hindus with representing their sects as "வைணவ சமயத்தினர்" or "சைவ சமயம்" but instead, as "இந்து சமயத்தினர்". So in the case of Ayyavazhi they don't call as "அய்யாவழி சமயம்" unless it is seperate from Hinduism. You say that there is no creadible reference to support Ayyavazhi as seperate religion. Then what about those above mentioned news paper reports?

Then for the question, "How much percentage of Ayyavazhi's believe that they are seperate from Hinduism"? Please see the way by which the study for the book "Religion and Subaltern Agency" is made.

"It was based on, collecting elements from written commentaries, good number of issues of Ayyavazhi journals, some books from Department of History - University of Kerala, LMS reports from 1819 to 1900, interviews with 33 top known thoelogians, commentators, orators, editors of journals, of Ayyavazhi, and also personal observations to Ayyavazhi festivals and rituals. And so it forecast the ultimate view of the essence of Ayyavazhi structure. And you can belive that this book form the view of majority of Ayyavazhi people even of a well educated or of an illiterate."

The conclusion of that book is made considering these things

opinion of 33 top-known theologians of Ayyavazhi. (ideology of Ayyavazhi)
LMS Reports from 1819 to 1900, (which shows the social structure of Ayyavazhi)
Personal observations to Ayyavazhi festivals (which shows How Ayyavazhi is Practically seperate from Hinduism to some extend.)

Over all, mind that this study and the conclusion is from a creadible university in India.

After all, it seems that User Black Sun is planning "completely rewrite" Ayyavazhi and it's related articles, calling that the present article is based on my POV. Then is he telling that all those citations are my POVs. And for that he had demanded the support of some other users who, some days before undergo a mass removal of Ayyavazhi from numerouse articles. As example see this article. See even some reform movements are mentioned there; But Ayyavazhi was cutted-down. ==> _Д =|Ω|=_Д _Paul^Ỹ 18:30, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Request for review

Hi, I have carfted a version for Indian mathematics. The version can be accessed here.

Kindly compare the version with the present Indian mathematics article, the version which to which I edited earlier and the version prior to my involvement:-

I have:-

Removed every single peice of quotation. The quotations ranged from glowing praises by Lapalce and Einstein to critisisms by Professor Dani. The material may belong under "Indian mathematics" on Wikiquote but it clearly will not find it's place in Encyclopedia Britannica.

Provided citations for extraordinary cases. I will in time provide citations for the whole of the article.

Removed the very odd "Charges of Eurocentrism", which is based on personal opinions and in it's best form may find place in a newspaper or a magazing article but certainly does not belong in this logbook of knowledge.

It would be helpful if you voiced your opinion on which version to keep. Please forgive the minor mistakes, if any, in grammer and puncuation. Since some editors have been aggressive and meanacing, I have had the uncharecteristic inclination to work on Wikipedia through my exams and I will make a check for these mistakes. Regards, _{Freedom skies| talk} 04:33, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Indian mathematics

Greetings, I was involved in the RfC in Indian mathematics. My efforts were directed towards creating a version such as this one, as compared to the this, this and this version. My efforts initially began with removing misrepresentation of quotaions and then I tried providing some of the "citations needed" tags with actual citations. The situation resulted into an RfC, timed during my examinations, to which I could admittedly, not work on adequately. Fowler&fowler has asked me to work with him but since I am sitting my examinations and the article has been edited extensively since the RfC by other editors I no longer can keep up the pace. My exams will continue and after that I will be leaving, taking a few days off WP. I have reviewed my future with the Indian mathematics article, and have come to the conclusion that since I am under time constraints and am under such pressure in real life that adequate responses or editing actions on "Indian mathematics" are just not possible for me right now. I can't contribute to it in the manner that I usually would; it would be unethical to the extreme to ask the other editors, who have wished me well during my examination, to wait. The article is under the watch of many good editors and I see and hope that it's quality benefits from the present situation. Many regards, _{Freedom skies| talk} 02:06, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Happy Holi

Happy Holi!!!!!!

-Nikkul 15:57, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] India Demographics

Because of India's rich diversity, no one image can represent all of India's one billion people. That is why I propose selecting a new demographics image every three months. This would allow for a regional balance and would show India as a whole. Many people have agreed that this is the only way to represent India's rich and varied diversity. Since you have voted for a change in the demographics section, I wanted to update you on this proposal. I would love to hear your comments on talk:India. Thanks so much. Have a great day!

-Coollemonade 23:46, 4 March 2007 (UTC)

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