Talk:Industrial rock

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[edit] Industial Rock VS Industrial Metal

Ok, I think the ammount of crossover entrys between IR and IM are getting very annoying to the point where they are affecting the quality of both articles. I think it is neccessary that a clear line between the two needs to be drawn, here is an example of what I mean:

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I know that this does sound rather pov, but given the ever growing confusion between these two article, it might be a good start to solving a potential long term confusion problem that both of these entrys are starting to suffer from. And yes it is correct that it is often hard to make a distiction between these two, but it would make a big difference if an effort was made here to help make a clear distinction. Avador 11:12, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

good work :) --MilkMiruku 16:29, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

I would argue that Orgy belongs in Industrial Rock. --148.241.64.130 01:49, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I would say NIN is not industrial anything. Orgy as well. Also KMFDM has many songs/albums that could be classified as Industrial Metal, but they also have many songs/albums that sound more Industrial Rock. Ive never really heard the term "Industrial Metal" used with a serious face anywhere, or by anyone. I would technically say Industrial Metal and Industrial Rock are pretty damn similar. I mean if we are going to go and keep creating new geners why not Industrial Punk? KMFDM would certianly fit into such a catagory. I remember some older version of this wiki entry used to be pretty good. Then the NIN Fan came along and screwed up several sections. Also the "this band isnt Industrial Rock, its Industrial Metal" came along and screwed it up too. Someone should clean this up.

KMFDM, Skinny Puppy, Ministry I think are good examples of Industrial Rock. Bad examples would be Orgy, Manson, and Nine inch Nails. Besides the fact that they dont sound industrial rock, they defeat the whole idea that most if not all Industrial Rock bands are against the idea of Pop-Culture, and MTV. Where as Orgy Manson and NIN ready willingly and able sell out to such things. Its not a matter that these bands are popular and the other ones arnt. So dont even try and make that argument. Its a matter of what the genre represents, and its message, AND style. 68.66.232.107

[edit] Older version

This article seems to be getting WORSE every time I read it. I would like to see a revert to a much older version, perhaps as far back as a year ago. The real problem here is that the genre itself has never really had a solid definition, or too many strong examples of it. Nor has it ever been the preferred way for the artists themselves to refer to their music. I can think of examples of times when all 4 of the ones listed consistently on this page (NIN, Filter, Stabbing Westward, Gravity Kills) have said they preferred it called something else, though I couldn't cite any sources.

[edit] Link change

I changed the filter link to point to the right page instead of a disamb. page where the band was hidden in a see also section but is there any way to make it display as Filter and point to Filter_(band)?

1-2-06

[edit] Klute

I just fixed the link to artist Klute. However, I really don't think he belongs on this list; he is a drum'n'bass producer and I've never heard anything from him that sounded even remotely industrial rock.

1-5-06

  • You're right, the Klute listed on Wikipedia is a different person. The Klute being listed here is a side-project of Leæther Strip. Though the industrial Klute was first, it has recently changed its name to Klutæ, to avoid confusion with the now-better-known d'n'b producer. - Rynne 18:24, 23 February 2006 (UTC)
    • Update: I just discovered that the industrial group Klute recently changed their name to Klutæ specifically to avoid such confusion. I've started a Klutæ stub to that effect. Also, Klutæ seems to be more industrial metal than industrial rock, so I'm gonna move it over there. - Rynne 00:50, 24 February 2006 (UTC)
Klutæ is a pure electronic act with guitar-loops (sampled guitars). that's not an industrial metal act.
  • That is exactly what's described in industrial metal: "This term [i.e., industrial metal] is used quite loosely, describing everything from industrial bands sampling metal riffs to heavy metal groups augmented with sequencers." - Rynne 14:54, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
I'm sorry but in no way shape or form is KMFDM, Die Krupps, or PIG industrial rock, these belong in industrial metal.
Actually since KMFDM and PIG do not usually use "metal" guitar but mainly rock and roll guitar ala Guenter Schulz--mando 04:20, 9 July 2006 (UTC)
Personally, I don't really consider "industrial metal" to be a real genre. The way I see it there's Industrial, which refers to older, more unconventional groups like Throbbing Gristle and Einsturzende Neubauten; Industrial-Rock which refers to bands like Ministry, Skinny Puppy, and KMFDM; Industrial-Dance or EBM for bands like Front 242 and Nitzer Ebb; and Post-Industrial for bands such as Rammstein, Orgy, God Lives Underwater, and Static-X. The "Rock" in Industrial-Rock just refers to the songwriting style. A band like Skinny Puppy may be mostly electronic, but their songs have more in common with Ministry than Front 242. The difference between Industrial-Rock and Post-Industrial is defined by a more accessible sound, and the "Industrial" qualities in those bands are more superficial, with many of these groups just being a rock band that uses synths. Industrial can also be used as a catch-all term for any of these styles.
As far as Nine Inch Nails, they could fit in either Industrial-Rock or Post-Industrial, but I would say they lean more to the latter.--Brian 2:51 PM, October 22, 2006 (Central Time)

[edit] Nine Inch Nails

Do you really think that NIN can be considered the archetype industrial rock group? Guitars on Pretty Hate machine are almost non-existent. Both KMFDM and Ministry predate NIN by many years. --mando 04:20, 9 July 2006 (UTC)

  • True, KMFDM and Ministry predate NIN; and Reznor has cited Ministry as an influence. However, as noted in the article, industrial rock is an offshoot of industrial metal—the latter being the genre in which Ministry and KMFDM are properly categorized. – Rynne 15:02, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
Well I really don't like the part about "there were some early influences". They weren't really influencing the genre so much as they were inventing it. It seems as if some nin fan came along and switched it around to suit his preferences. What about Nine Inch Nails makes them industrial rock exactly? Sounds more like some synth pop to me.I think that milku guy will agree with me when I say KMFDM isn't really heavy enough to belong in industrial metal. Most of their early 90s late 80s stuff are just guitar sample thrown here and there, Ministry on the other hand is just pure in your face metal to me. Since KMFDM and PIG do not usually use "metal" guitar but mainly rock and roll guitar ala Guenter Schulz, I disagree with placing them in industrial metal. I think they should stay right here in industrial rock and the article should be rewritted to give credit where credit is due.-- 68.235.47.38 03:43, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

saying things such as arguably nin is the archetypal industrial rock band. This is obviously an opinion, not a fact. This goes against wikipedia's NPOV policy and therefore I'm adding a tag. -- 68.235.47.38 03:43, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Oh please, can someone fix this? NiN is not an archetype, and that word is certainly not NPOV. I also find the way "there were some early influces" worded to be pretty causal way of tossing away importance of. Where as a bands like KMFDM Ministry, etc are far more important to Industrial Rock, since these are some of the very bands that CREATED it. NiN did not create anything about industrial rock, and perhaps thats not a NPOV by me, but they certainly are no Archetype, and shouldnt be refered to as such. 68.66.232.107 11:27, 23 August 2006 (UTC)


Exactly, some NIN fan came a long and decided to give credit where credit is not due. KMFDM and MINISTRY both INVENTED the genre. Songs by KMFDM such as VIRUS, DON'T BLOW YOUR TOP, and GODLIKE all predate NIN by many years. DON'T BLOW YOUR TOP and THE LAND OF RAPE AND HONEY were released in 1988 when Trent was busy doing his Synthpop stuff trying to rip off Gary Numan. Every time I try to edit this page somone comes along and changes it. -68.235.32.111|mando 02:44, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Some NIN fan keeps coming back and adding NIN to this page, even though everyone else has pretty much agreed that NIN isnt industrial rock. Sentiments such as "NIN was highly acclaimed by rolling stones" has nothing to do with Industrial Rock. NIN was also not at the "forefront" of Industrial Rock. Maybe compromise would be that NIN was influenced by Industrial Rock. I have since removed references to NIN. 68.110.173.242 04:07, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Who says Nine Inch Nails isn't industrial rock? WesleyDodds 10:21, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
To say that Nine Inch Nails have no place in the Industrial rock genre is a joke. While they might not have invented the genre they have played a big part in developing the genre. While NIN might get airplay more so than any other band like KMFDM or Ministry, to say that just because they sell records, are a major label band and get played on MTV does not take away any credit they deserve in the industrial rock realm. And no, I am not a big NIN fan. I prefer KMFDM but credit where credit is due people. Blackserenity 09:35, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
I couldn't agree more with the above. Just because it has been played on the radio or MTV doesn't make NIN fake or unreal. The popularity of Nine Inch Nails should seen as something negative. Rather, it should be regarded as one of the marks that Industrial rock has left on the mainstream music industry. M0nkeyish 03:30, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

I disagree, please refer to the section "Industrial Rock vs Industrial Metal". The comment someone made there pretty much sums it all up. I'll quote it here for you.

"Besides the fact that they dont sound industrial rock, they defeat the whole idea that most if not all Industrial Rock bands are against the idea of Pop-Culture, and MTV. Where as Orgy Manson and NIN ready willingly and able sell out to such things. Its not a matter that these bands are popular and the other ones arnt. So dont even try and make that argument. Its a matter of what the genre represents, and its message, AND style."

Id also like to mention that whoever keeps editing this article to add NiN in, seems to be fond of reducing other bands influences. Noteably the constant removal of KMFDM, and/or rendering it to lower-status. When in fact KMFDM is right up their with Skinny Puppy, and Ministry. As almost anyone who knows true Industrial Rock would recognize. Everytime I look at this article NiN is always made to appear as some sort of great industrial rock band, when in fact they were never Industrial Rock.

67.174.179.12 08:34, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

While not so apparent on the record, Pretty Hate Machine songs are driven by both synths and guitars when played live. Even the slow keyboard song "Something I Can Never Have" has a guitar part at the end nowadays. Industrial elements may include heavy sampling of machines and torture sounds ("Happiness in Slavery", "Reptile") and noise remixes (Fixed, Further Down the Spiral).
NIN are against the idea of pop culture and MTV. Their videos get played on MTV because they are popular, but that doesn't mean they are sell-out drones. NIN refused to play at the 2005 MTV Movie Awards due to a dispute over content/censorship. Reznor has publicly bashed NME, FOX, Marilyn Manson for selling out, etc.
There are numerous sources that label NIN as industrial rock, though of course some of them could be misguided. There are books and some scholarly articles doing it. Your rejection of this is a personal opinion. Genres are intrinsically so fuzzy anyway (the Industrial music has no stance on what industrial actually means) that it doesn't hurt to talk about what is at least regarded as industrial by many, many people.
"On first listen, Nine Inch Nails' new single, "Survivalism" (Nothing/Interscope) sounds like a throwback to the heyday of industrial rock in the early '90s, when Trent Reznor would rage by unleashing a guitar tornado, regroup with a subtler synth break and then rage again."[1] —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Pomte (talk • contribs) 02:39, 30 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] So, help us understand.

Industrial Rock is "electronic" music with a lyricist & rhythm foundation and industrial metal is more or less...the same thing (or of the same composition)? Is it the audible musical interpretation that is being address in the despute or is it the definition or the musical style/genre?

Industrial Rock - incorporates "other" sounds. Does this mean that Industrial rock include sound synthesizers, computer generated bites with a foundation of percussion and lyrics? I recently met an Industrial Rock artist from the musical group FASHION BOMB - and he says his work is a collaberation of all of the artists in the band, starting with guitar rifts and the rythm and lyrics fine hone the created piece.

So the differnece between rock & metal - is not in the creation but the CORE of the sound?

When it is all stripped away, please address the difference between the two genre which seem to be one and the same. Also we have some interest in a clearer definition of which genre came first, so to say, our present uninformed understanding is that industrial metal was born and industrial rock added a few "synthetic" sounds? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.134.135.227 (talk) 21:37, 28 January 2007 (UTC).

Rock is softer than Metal. That's all. The influences are the same. Ministry or Nine Inch Nails, they all were influenced by industrial and EBM groups such as Throbbing Gristle, SPK, Front 242, Signal Aout 42 or Einstürzende Neubauten. Ministry and Front 242 founded the band Revolting Cocks. --~Menorrhea 20:15, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I tend to be of mind, that Industrial Rock and Industrial Metal are one in the same. Being that bands that created Industrial Rock, could also be placed in Industrial Metal. KMFDM, Skinny Puppy, Ministry. 67.174.179.12 08:37, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

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