Talk:Indie rock

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[edit] Not A Genre?

With a NPOV in mind, I don't think you can really say that Indie is a genre. All the term really means (or meant in the beginning) was that the album or artist in question used an independent lable to publish their music. So two indie bands might have nothing musical in common, they just happen to both use independent lables. I don't know, that's just something that has confused me a lot, and I hoped Wikipedia would answer the question up front instead of hiding it as a side note somewhere. So if 'indie' actually describes a genre now (which it seems to) could someone write how the word 'indie' came to describe the music that it represents? I think it would inprove the clarity a lot, and make a better article.--72.75.106.169 06:04, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

It's a genre. Check out Indie (music) for music distinguished by being on independent labels. WesleyDodds 07:05, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mess

It is a mess indeed. I don't think Acb's revision of 27 may 2005 is helping a lot in the opening paragraph, either.

What is a lot worse is that the article implies that "alternative" was some sort of bridge between new wave/punk and indie, which is totally wrong. Historically, the term indie was in generel use in the late eighties. Thus, Sonic Youth as of Sister/Daydream Nation was an indie rock band. "Alternative" was used for stuff like 10.000 Maniacs, REM and Green on Red, bands that were all on major labels at the time (late 80'ies). These bands were never seen as a part of the indie thing, but constituted some kind of middle ground. This is why Pearl Jam, obviously an alternative band, certainly don't belong in this article.

I think it would be great and constructive if the congregation here could agree to use Michael Azerrad's "Our band could be your life" as some sort of reference point, at least as far as the US scene is concerned. So instead of everybody contributing with what they "feel" their definition of indie is, we might start to point to actual, real-world sources! What a concept, huh? Then we might be able to turn the article into something a bit more useful. --The User Formerly Known As 83.91.204.14 4 june 2005

It seem fairly obvious to me that an indie rock band is a rock band signed to an independant label.207.157.121.50 09:20, 14 October 2005 (UTC)mightyafrowhitey

This whole article is a glaringly incomplete, apocryphal mess.

I removed from this article A link to "Fuck (band)". If anyone wants to make a page for this band, then return it to this list. We shouldn't list profanely named bands just for the sake of having the word there. - Mark Ryan

Page is created now, so I've returned the link --Generica 02:38, Jul 15, 2004 (UTC)

Does it make sense to link to "alternative rock", since that just redirects back to here? I don't think so, but at the same time, I don't think the link should simply be removed either. It seems to me that, while related, indie rock and alternative rock aren't exactly the same, and therefore, alternative rock deserves an article of its own. -Chinju


The list seems a bit US-orientated, and also needs trimming of some of the less significant names. The bit about "indie"/"emo" isn't strictly relevant either. -Silver plane

I agree that the bit about emo doesn't belong here:

In some musical communities, "indie" is used to mean the same thing "emo" means to nearly everyone else, due to heavy criticism of "emo" bands.

Because it really contains little info, and I can't quite parse its meaning. The less relevant bands shoud no be removed on general principal, though as the list gets too long, it should be moved to List of indie rock musicians. I'm sure the list is americocentric and needs more indie rock bands from other countries, though the solution is not to remove American bands. Tuf-Kat

I removed the following:

'There is often a unifying esthetic or ethos of defiance or independence, and a powerful community feel that rebels against the homogonies of aesthetic and philosophy that exist in the mainstream, against cliches of production qualities, instrumentation, style and ways of looking at the world; feminism as opposed to sexism, positivity - as opposed to the bling-bling and sexist topics in the mainstream - is found in indie hip-hop, etc. For every "Rage Against the Machine" there is often a more potent and creative "Fugazi" thriving outside the mass media.

There is useful info here, but it is much too biased until someone rewrites it. Tuf-Kat 21:55, Mar 24, 2004 (UTC)

There are a _lot_ of people adding bands that link to nothing. How about slowing the tide, and actually creating at least stubs for the bands before adding the links here? --Generica 04:48, Jul 15, 2004 (UTC)


[edit] Indie or not?

There's a bit of a problem with the list of indie bands. There are several bands on the list who are either on a major label or switched from an indie label to a major label. This kind of hurts the integrity of this list. First of all, any bands who were never on an indie label should be removed. Secondly, it would probably be best to make a second list of bands who were on an indie label but changed to a major one. This would help make this a true list of indie artists, instead of just a list of alternative music artists (which we already have). -- LGagnon 23:10, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

This started being a problem nearly twenty years ago. Since then, the term is frequently applied to bands more or less in that style, rather than necessarily bands on independent labels per se. It was because of this that Australian indie rock now redirects to the much more specific List of Australian independent bands, 1976-1992, which includes a definition of what the term means in context - and that meaning is what it was generally accepted to mean in that time and place.
The problem is complicated by labels that are distributed by indies but owned by majors, e.g. many in the UK in the early 1990s. Then there's labels that go out through different distribution for different records.
The ambiguity is in the real-world common usage; we could change it to be strict, but the list would then need a new name not to constitute editorialising on the issue - David Gerard 13:59, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)
The thing is the list is approached as a genre heading. Nothing inherently wrong with that instead of a list of bands only on independant labels. The problem with that is he word "indie" (especially in the UK) is generally considered synonymous with Alternative rock in terms of connotation. You say "indie" instead of "alternative". Thus, the List of indie rock artists has bands like Suede and R.E.M. listed. A more limited scope of the usage of indie rock (Sebadoh, Pavement, Liz Phair, Modest Mouse, etc.; basically the post-Nirvana underground rock scene) seems to be what the article is meant to exist for, but it really doesn't address it sufficiently. Maybe it needs a rewrite. WesleyDodds 05:53, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Indie is not pop is not emo

I really don't think Liz Phair or Dashboard Confessional are indie rock bands, and a lot of other stuff on here isn't either. Indie is a genre disparate from emo rock, and pop rock, at least in the U.S. (OK, so it's basically the same as alt rock) Andre 07:34, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Liz Phair's early work was released on Matador Records and is considered very influential in the indie rock world. Dashboard does, indeed, not belong here.--Tinyfolk 14:46, 21 May 2005 (UTC)


Im disgusted Mychemical Romance has been used as an example of indy, It is horrible!

[edit] "rock"

I've noticed that "indie music" is a redirect to "indie rock". Is this appropriate? A lot of indie music doesn't come under the category of rock and roll. (For example, Azure Ray; it would be inaccurate to describe them as a rock band, and yet they fit into the genre of indie music.) I propose restructuring the pages to make "indie music" the umbrella page, with "indie rock", "indie pop" and such as subcategories. Acb 01:09, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The first paragraph draws a specific distinction between "indie rock" and "indie pop" -- but the link to "indie pop" redirects back to "indie rock"! 24.59.113.214 6 July 2005 21:37 (UTC)


Well, it really looks like every band someone just happens to know, was put into the list. Bands like Sigur Ros and Morcheeba are _definitely_ no Indie Rock, as their own articles can tell you, so are lots of other bands. I know it's hard to sort bands by category, but at least be consistent throught the wikipedia. --Trickstar, 6 Jan 2005

[edit] Eels (The)

Fixed the link to The Eels to remove the The - the page it links too has the correct name.

[edit] Indie: Status Or Genre?

This paragraph is not entirely true, In Britain there is more to indie than just those particular bands, these bands are indie yet there are so many others that don't fall into the post punk category such as Keane and Thirteen Senses to name two, also Indie was widely used as a label in Britain before 2004.

This line, under 'Indie: Status Or Genre?', seems to have missed at least a decade of indie charts in the UK. I can't find a date that they started, but I remember watching the indie charts as a teenager in the early nineties. I don't know of any time when the indie charts were dropped and then restarted as a different category. At the very least, indie predates The Strokes and Interpol. What about Suede etc.? Therefore, I'm going to replace this with a line about 'indie music charts starting around the early 90s in the UK'.
In Britain, 'indie' is a term recognised by the BBC's Top Of The Pops and used to refer to a new wave of British rock bands who mostly rose to prominence during 2004 in the alternative music charts, following the New York explosion by bands such as The Strokes and Interpol in the first three years of the new millenium.

Jenks 12:23, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Split off list of bands as a separate article?

Should we split off the list of bands as a separate article? This has been done with Alternative music and List of alternative rock bands. -- ericl234 talk 18:22, May 10, 2005 (UTC)

Any list with more than a dozen or so entries should be split, I think. Tuf-Kat 21:10, May 10, 2005 (UTC)
Done. -- ericl234 talk 00:39, May 11, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Twee Pop and Sub Pop?

What in the world does Sub Pop Records have to do with Twee Pop? Because I can't think of a single thing. K Records would be better, and Sarah Records would be best to link to the twee genre, along with any number of newer labels (magic marker records, elefant, etc.).--Tinyfolk 14:46, 21 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Indie rock and Indie (music)

I think there needs to be some rationalisation between these two articles. Indie (music) discusses the broader indie movement/ethos in popular music, which encompasses indie rock, indie pop and other varieties, whereas indie rock refers to a specific subcategory of indie music which a more rock-and-roll focus. (There is indie music which is not indie rock; for example, Belle & Sebastian, Architecture in Helsinki and Saint Etienne are hardly "rock", and yet they are characteristically indie.)

I propose integrating those parts about the broader indie ethos/values which aren't already in indie (music) to there and removing them from the Indie rock article, which should focus specifically on the history and characteristics rock-oriented varieties of indie music.Acb 23:34, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

The article is still a very apocryphal, POV, and weasel-word mess. Almost every sentence is a "some say this but some say that"; the back and forth gives me whiplash! Better that one or two central definitions be pulled out and discussed as differing viewpoints on indie. And yes, the music and rock articles need to be made sane with each other. --Dhartung | Talk 07:19, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

far too much importance on flavor of the minute name-checking (an LA Indie Rock scene does not exist, period) and far too little historical information or back story. i'd almost think an RCA Records exec wrote the thing.

if you're going to say that indie rock is different from indie pop (especially in your opening paragraph) DO NOT have a link that redirects one from "indie pop" back to the original article that was being viewed. This needs much fixing. -Emily

[edit] Are these even real genres?

Just because I have never heard of them doesn't mean they aren't real genres, that's why I'm asking. But, seriously, does anyone use labels like Freak-folk, New Weird America, Nu-gaze, or Indietronic? "New Weird America" is especially suspect, considering the artists mentioned aren't even significant to indie as a whole. I won't delete this (because I may be wrong), but some clarification would be nice. I hope people aren't making up genres. . .

Also, unrelated, this sentence seems rather superfulous, as if someone is trying to name as many genres as they can. For no productive reason. Does anyone else agree?

"More recently, the term "indie rock" has become so incredibly broad that almost anything from post-punk to alt-country to synth-pop to afrobeat to ambient to noise pop to IDM to psychedelic folk to hundreds of other genres can fall under its umbrella." White Lightning 21:50, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ohio

For some reason, a lot of Indie rock seems to come out of Ohio. Is that worth mentioning? Wouter Lievens 10:42, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Listing at List of bands from Ohio Wouter Lievens 10:46, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Linkspam

Hey, if you're an editor watching this article, please beware of people adding their own personal music review site to the External links section. I think that the External links section should be limited to websites that have a notable influence in indie rock and a wide readership, and they should not be focused on a particular locality (one that I removed was focused on the Omaha, Nebraska indie rock scene). Thus I think NME and Pitchforkmedia are good links; they are extremely notable. An academic study of indie rock might be a good external link as well - it shouldn't be all review sites!

So if you're affiliated with a site, don't insert it into external links yourself - let somebody else decide whether it's good enough to represent all of indie rock for the Internet. If it is, they will. --Grace 10:00, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Keyboards

Seems like there's been a minor skirmish over the insertion of keyboards recently. Personally, I think it's a pretty valid addition. They might not be as essential as drums or guitar, but they're quite widespread. Any thoughts? Deleuze 23:45, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I for the life of me can't think of a sizable number of indie rock bands that relied heavily on keyboards. I'm reminded of John Peel's reason for not playing the Festive Fifty in 1991, complaining that the chart was dominated by "white boys with guitars" (ie. indie rock). WesleyDodds 10:09, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
The Embarrassment, Felt, The Auteurs, The Fall, Feelies, Fire Engines, Magazine, Public Image Ltd., Pulp, Suede, Joy Division, The Sound, The Bats, The Clean, Chameleons, Tuxedomoon, Wire...not to mention all the neo-post-punk and dance-punk bands that copy them. I dunno, that's off the top of my head. This might just be a problem related to how meaningless "indie" is as a descriptive term, though. Deleuze 12:35, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Most of those are post-punk, not indie rock. WesleyDodds 19:27, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Current trends

Shouldn't the current trends section be moved to indie music? I can't picture Dntel or Six Organs of Admittance as rock...

Also, is the term "nu-gaze" actually used out in the wild? Mentioning post-rock would be more appropriate. Squeal 08:04, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

Just because it's called indie rock doesn't mean it has to "rock". And nu-gaze (haven't heard the term much, but I have heard it) I don't think overlaps with post-rock much. WesleyDodds 03:36, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, so what I'm questioning is precisely the fact that it is called indie rock. Or rock at all, for that matter. Dntel, for example, is undoubtly universally classified as electronic.
Also, I'm not arguing that post-rock overlaps nu-gaze (althought, if the term is applicable to groups such as Sigur Rós or M83, it apparently does to some extent), just that the former is infinitely more popular and leaving it out while mentioning the latter seems improper. And, with 2700 hits on Google, nu-gaze's usage seems almost unexistent and dangerously close to a sampling error (any of the other mentioned genres produces over 100 000 results). Squeal 10:32, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Freak-folk vs. New Wierd America

What is described here as freak folk fits more accurately into the designation of New Wierd America (at least according to Devendra Banhart, it's current Manson/Christ figure, who also has the unfotrunate tendency to refer to it as new age, which I believe is part of a secret power crystal endorsement deal he is using to buy beard combs or whatever the hell he would do with such blood money) and what is described as New Wierd America is more accurately psych-folk, or perhaps avant psych folk.I'm switchin' that shit.

[edit] Rock on for AIDS II

we are influence organizer in Bali - Indonesia would like to invite all indies band around the world to celebrate Rock on for AIDS II charity conert " Inspiration of Bali " , saturday 2 december 2006 . this programme will be support by the capacity lighting & sound system 150.000 watt and more than 20.000 people will watch this event.this charity concert is the biggest one in Indonesia.concerning with the programme we as the organizer prepare acommodation likes hotel and transport for 1 week in bali.all indie band songs are going to be on air at 5 radio station in Bali. more over , all indies band are able to sell their records when the concert going on and we wiil give a videos concert.its a honour for us if all indie label bands around the world could join this charity concert.for more information please send your e-mail to influence_org @yahoo.com

[edit] Underground?

I wouldn't mind a discussion on the status of Indie rock being considered underground. Indie rock is becoming as ubiquitous as McDonald's and cell phones these days. If you look on the charts, be them Billboard, iTunes, or even last.fm, you can easily see that Indie Rock is one of the most popular genres these days. I believe that the Shins made a song for a McDonald's commercial actually.

Whether you're a fan of the genre or not, there is no denying how marketable it is.

The term underground is used way too loosely in this article. I'd like to remove its usage entirely.

Only a few indie rock bands have had massive success. It's still largely underground, and that's where it by and large emerges from. WesleyDodds 08:16, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
There are many, many bands nowadays (anything between Razorlight and Modest Mouse) which may classify themselves as indie to some degree, but are in fact very marketable.--HisSpaceResearch 02:41, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
But yeah, just in my personal opinion, indie rock sucks hard and it's the reason that I don't listen to newly released music anymore. This article does, however, provide a fair overview of the genres that do exist and I would agree that although many of these bands do come from the underground, it doesn't stop some of these bands that originated there from eventually becoming really big (a la Arcade Fire).--h i s s p a c e r e s e a r c h 12:59, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nu-gaze et al

So, once again - nu-gaze is apparently another of NME's failed attempt at creating a new musical genre. Not that the classification does not have its justifications, but actually being used or describing an actual musical scene of interconnected bands and artists are not one of them, which renders it unusable anyway.

I believe that the genre description without the above explanation included constitutes original research. I also believe that removing it entirely (at least for now) from this (and other) article(s) should be considered the best option.

Oh, and I removed DNTEL from the list. Not rock. I'm still wondering on the justification of including folk genres in the article about rock music; I can't see any, but please feel free to correct me. Squeal 13:27, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

I would agree with the removal. I don't know if NME is really a reliable source, heh Deleuze 23:38, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "New Rave"?!

I deleted the bit on "New Rave". It's another stupid genre NME decided existed. It's also a relatively new stupid genre. The only one of these "new rave" bands that anyone's paying any significant attention to is the Klaxons. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by FrankenFirke (talk • contribs) 23:12, 10 March 2007 (UTC).

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