Talk:Images of Saddam Hussein

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Removed redirect that previously pointed to Wikipedia talk:List of images/People/Saddam Hussein. This is a different page, and needs its own talk. Andrewa 20:01, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

[edit] VfD debate about naming and existence

You can find the entire debate from Aug 2004 on its original VfD subpage. There is still much disagreement about how this page should be named, and whether it should be in the article space. +sj+

[edit] Recent move

I have moved it to a subpage in the talk namespace. --Michael Snow 18:01, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Why did you do this? I've moved it back. Don't make such drastic changes without getting consensus. --Cantus 20:00, Aug 25, 2004 (UTC)

I did it because there wasn't consensus to delete the page, there wasn't consensus to move it to somewhere in Wikipedia:List of images, there wasn't consensus to remove the fair use images, and nobody was taking the initiative to resolve the stale nomination for deletion. In any case, it does not belong in the article namespace as purely an image gallery. I thought my solution of moving it to Talk:Saddam Hussein/Images was an ideal solution, since its usefulness is tied to the debate there about which images to use in the article. I put a note at Talk:Saddam Hussein so people could easily refer to the gallery. This is exactly the sort of thing subpages can be useful for, this was the suggestion Sj ultimately made, and I think it is easily the best resolution. Unless you would like to point out something that is actually wrong with this solution, I plan to move it back. --Michael Snow 20:58, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

In any case, it does not belong in the article namespace as purely an image gallery. I think, FWIW, that this argument is specious. Paper encyclopedias I'm familiar with include image galleries. I am, not too put too fine a point on it, beggered if I can understand why anyone would have a problem with such a page in the article namespace. It's hardly as if the article goes around nipping people's ankles and making a nuisance of itself. --Tagishsimon

What paper encyclopedias are you referring to? The ones I know of either include images with their articles, like we do, or if they can't afford to print every page in color, then they may have "galleries" on glossier paper interspersed at various places. They do not have articles that consist simply of image galleries. Pictures of Saddam Hussein should be used to illustrate the article on Saddam Hussein, not to create their own article, and the whole reason this page exists is simply because people aren't always in agreement on what images to include in that article. The gallery is a reference for that debate, and therefore exactly appropriate for a talk subpage. --Michael Snow 21:20, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Please refer to Wikipedia:Votes_for_deletion/Images_of_Saddam_Hussein for arguments supporting Tagishsimon's remarks. --Cantus 21:25, Aug 25, 2004 (UTC)

Pictures of Saddam Hussein should be used to illustrate the article on Saddam Hussein, not to create their own article'. Why? That's just your POV. My POV is that collections of images linked to a subject are often a) intrinsically interesting and b) way too plural to include on the main article page. This gives rise, IMO, to the need for a Galllery page. The article namespace seems to me to be the best place for such a thing. Wiki policy, AFAIK, says no to collections of pictures sans text, but yes to collections of pictures with text.

The statement you quote from me is basically the same as your admission that Wiki policy, AFAIK, says no to collections of pictures sans text, but yes to collections of pictures with text. My "POV" is to support Wikipedia policy. There is no text of any significance in this "article". The text is at Saddam Hussein, but these images currently are not included there. --Michael Snow 21:48, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Cantus' point is well made; whatever your POV, big changes should be discussed in advance. In this case, you have at least two people asking for a debate before a move, one of whom (me) opposes the move.

It was discussed in advance - Sj already made this suggestion a week ago on Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Images of Saddam Hussein, and nobody raised any objections to it. I thought it was a reasonable situation in which to be bold, since the issue was getting stale. It's not like I'm getting into a move war while the debate is ongoing. --Michael Snow 21:48, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

In fairness, I think the policy on this issue may well be worth revisiting; and, too the policy of not allowing article_name/subpage, since in my little head, having Saddam Hussain/Images would be the best of all solutions. --Tagishsimon

Well, if you would like to revisit that policy, feel free, but subpages are not enabled in the article namespace and the issue has been debated quite a bit. If you want to see, check out the links at Wikipedia talk:Subpages. --Michael Snow 21:48, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)