Talk:Iberian Romance languages

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Contents 1 Catalan 2 Astur-Leonese 3 Portuguese, Galician, Galician-Portuguese 4 Map!!

[edit] Catalan

How many people do speak Catalan in France? Is it really 3,00, and what does this figure present? Should it be 3000 or does it mean 3%. --83.134.111.127 08:32, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Astur-Leonese

Hi, Error! In which state is Artur-Leonese official? Portugal? Mirandese is officially recognised. Spain? Bable is officially recognised. It has no official status. I can be wrong, of course, I hope you'll correct me. Cheers! :) User:Marco Neves

I get a bit dizzy with these edit conflicts. What I hope to have made clear is that Astur-Leones e is (at least for some) the superset of several dialects (Asturian, Leonese, Mirandese, at least). I am not sure if there is a common standard for them or several. At least in Asturias there is an Academy. Bable has been applied to:

• some of dialects in Asturias
• all the dialects in Asturias
• Astur-Leonese as a whole
• It can even translate patois.

Besides some people don't like the word "Bable".

I think that the borders between languages and dialects (as in having a standard) are not very clear for Astur-Leonese.

Summarizing, I thought that Mirandese, hence, Astur-Leonese is co-official in Miranda. If you know otherwise, correct.

After reading the Catalan autonomy act, I am not sure if Aranese is co-official or just very protected.

(I'm tired) -- Error 04:41, 20 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Error, don't get dizzy, this is normal: it is the Wikipedia way of writing articles ;) Mirandese is granted official recognition, and I thought it was official, but I read the Portuguese law about it and it is just protected. Aranese is official, since it can be used by the local authorities and even in the Catalan Parliament (maybe Catalans do this to indirectly criticize the fact that they cannot speak Catalan in Spanish Parliament). Cheers to you! :) User:Marco Neves

Portuguese and Galician: The fact that a Portuguese kingdom was formed allowed the formation of a distinct Portuguese language, based on the ancient Galician-Portuguese romance. Early Portuguese can be seen as codified Galician-Portuguese. Separation and eventual codification of Galician led to these two varieties being considered different languages today. This sentence is completly correct. There is only one official language in Spain, that's Spanish. And there are some other 3 co-official in certain regions of the country (Basque, galician and Catalan, I believe that Valencian is not one); and a number of official recognitions. Mirandese in Portugal is officially recognized (it is not an official Portuguese language, but officially a Portuguese language to be studiyed in local Schools and used in some other aspects of life), it hasn't enough speakers (first and second language speakers number less than 2000, first language less than 500). Portugal has a single official language, Portuguese.Pedro 02:03, 12 Apr 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Portuguese, Galician, Galician-Portuguese

"The fact that a Portuguese kingdom was formed allowed the formation of a distinct Portuguese language, based on the ancient Galician-Portuguese romance. Early Portuguese can be seen as codified Galician-Portuguese. Separation and eventual codification of Galician led to these two varieties being considered different languages today." This is a totally biased account:

• There was no objective historical transition between Galician-Portuguese and Portuguese (or Galician). There was no 'codification' of Galician-Portuguese when Portugal became independent; people just kept talking the way they always had.
• Galician and Portuguese are "considered different languages today" for mostly political and sociolinguistic reasons.

I'm deleting it.

I don't entirely agree with you. The language in which early medieval Portuguese literature was written is called Galician-Portuguese and is, for the most part, indistinguishable from the Ibero-Romance spoken in Galicia at the time. However, as the Christian reconquista moved south, the Galician-Portuguese language brought from the North mixed with the Mozarabic dialects that were spoken in the Arab-controlled territories giving rise to a separate Portuguese language which, by the 15th century was already clearly distinct from the language spoken in northwestern Spain. Since Galician and Portuguese form a linguistic continuum, it might be actually hard to differentiate between the two. However, the differences that exist between the two languages are not just the result of the recent (Castilian-influenced) standardization of the Galician language in the 20th century, but actually reflect a linguistic split that took place several centuries ago. 200.177.0.128 01:50, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Are Galician and Portuguese different? Absolutely. So are northern Portuguese and southern Portuguese. Being different doesn't necessarily make them different languages. But what I object to, anyway, isn't the statement that they are separate languages. It's that the wording of the article implied that Portuguese had magically sprung into existence the moment Portugal became independent. That is nonsense; linguistic change is always gradual and slow. There is no moment in time you can point to and say "Here Portuguese and Galician split" (unless you base the split on political criteria). Portuguese is not "based on the ancient Galician-Portuguese"; it's an uninterrupted continuation of it. FilipeS 12:34, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

For the same reason, I have deleted the following:

"Portuguese split from Galician when the Portuguese population came into contact with speakers of Mozarabic - this explains the many Portuguese words of Arab origin." FilipeS 15:11, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Map!!

This article desperatly needs a detailed map showing all languages and dialects in the Iberian peninsula (see Iberian languages). Anyone has one? The Ogre 18:19, 1 September 2006 (UTC)