Talk:Hylomorphism

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[edit] More work

This very existence of this article is a big improvement. But, I dare say, the topic is a difficult one to us because we are mainly all atomists. Thus while on the one hand I am saying that the article fails to capture the topic, on the other I am saying that it is a tough topic and it is no vain venture to undertake it and no disgrace not to get it at first.

A few pointers for a heads up. Hylomorphic matter is not scientific matter. In change it does not change. Form changes, but there are different kinds of forms. Second, atomism and hylomorphism are not opposites, do not contradict each other. They study different aspects of change. Third, atoms have both matter and form. There is no matter without form and no form without matter.

It's a different view, folks. I understand it, and many others do also, but not the people in general, who have been taught to be atomists. If after a long time the article has no champion, I will undertake to make it comprehensible, but only if it does not get trashed.Dave 18:01, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Hylomorphism is quite compatible with modern atomism, since modern atoms aren't indestructible.1Z 00:23, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Plus ca change

"that what changes is the matter while the form remains invariant".

Surely that is the wrong way round.1Z 21:16, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Of course, brother. The whole article is dead wrong and needs to be rewritten. I'm waiting for someone to rewrite it. The author needed to throw something in there to make the red underlines blue somewhere else, so he did the best he could, but ancient philosphy is not his forte.

Approaching the definition through the change problem, the theory explains how change can occur by hypothesizing an element, matter, that does not change and lends continuity to the object, and other elements, forms, that appear and disappear in the object lending discontinuity to it. Thus an object in change can be both continuous and discontinuous. Approaching the definition through the problem of multiplicity, the theory explains how the same object can be multiple by hypothesizing an element, matter, that is multiple and lends multiplicity to the object, and other elements, forms, that are the same in many objects. Thus an object, such as man, can be one species, man, and yet be multiple men.

You can only get an idea of these components by abstraction. Start with a ball of wax. Knead it into a cyclinder. The wax is the same but the form has changed from ball to cylinder. Now generalize from "ball" and "cylinder" to any determination whatsoever! They are all forms. The self-undetermined stuff in which they reside is matter. it has no determination of its own.

Matter and form do not exist and cannot be found without each other. They can be conceived as everywhere uniformly interpenetrated, "metaphysical interpenetration." They are really distinct and each gives its quasi-property to the object: form, unity and determination; matter: multiplicity and distinctness or dispersion.

The above explanation will reassure you and get you started if you are going further. You could take a course at BC or Notre Dame or any such or ask your parish priest for some instruction, but if you are a Protestant like me any beginning text in metaphysics will do. If you are of another religion, don't let your cleric know you are interested, and if you are a scientific academic or scientist, be very quiet indeed about your interest. Best of luck.Dave 03:43, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Functional Programming / Categories

If someone knows the categorical meaning of the hylomorphism, this one'd be welcome by me...

1) What makes you think it has got anything to do with these subjects?

2) what's your handle?

Or were you thinking of polymorphism?

1Z 00:21, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Hi there Peter. I told you it was tough. Hylomorphism is a metaphysical theory of phenomenal change and multiplicity. Happy now? No, seriously, I'm not into the programming side of Wiki but if you explain what you want maybe I can help. What's "these subjects?" What do you mean by "handle?" No, it has nothing to do with polymorphism.Dave 03:12, 11 March 2007 (UTC)