Talk:Hybrid vehicle

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--Alex 08:30, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

This topic contains controversial issues, some of which have reached a consensus for approach and neutrality, and some of which may be disputed. Should you wish to make any substantial changes or additions;

Before making any such substantial changes, please carefully read the discussion-page dialogue. During any such changes, please be careful to cite reputable sources supporting them, and when submitting your edit, please include an accurate and concise description in the "Edit summary" field-box. After making any such changes, please also carefully describe the reason(s) for any such changes on the discussion-page.

For comments on what exactly constitutes a hybrid vehicle, please see Talk:Definition of hybrid vehicle. CGameProgrammer 02:36, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

For old talks, see /1

Contents 1 Hybrids as a power source 2 Victor Wouk 3 Comments moved from Talk:Gas-electric hybrid engine 3.1 Merge? 4 Completed merge from Gas-electric hybrid engine 5 Why are gasoline-electrics more common than diesel-electric? 6 unsourced text on plug-in hybrids 7 Expensive Hybrid Costs 8 Long article warning 9 Truck 10 Spelling errors 11 Verifying Patents 12 Remove "Fairs with hybrid vehicles" section? 13 Hybridisation: link or stub? 14 Single engine is not hybrid 15 4 Engines, powers and fuel sources 16 Major revision and purging completed 17 Compare section/link removed

[edit] Hybrids as a power source

I removed "Once at their destination, some hybrids can be used as power source themselves which of particular use in commercial and military applications." partly for the obvious (writing) but also because hybrids have to be modified to do this, and also because it is not a feature unique to them. Many cars have 12V outlets and some even have 110V outlets (and no hybrids have 110V outlets) because they all employ batteries that are recharged by the engine to feed electricity to various elements. A hybrid might have a more powerful generator but all that means is the conversion is somewhat easier with them. Also Honda hybrids do not generate electricity by the engine, except the normal amount used for the regular battery (charged by exhaust gas). CGameProgrammer 18:15, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Victor Wouk

I believe it would be interesting to make a page about Victor Wouk, the godfather of hybrid vehicles. Having some information about him, and having known him in person, I will make a first attempt. LHOON 18:45, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Comments moved from Talk:Gas-electric hybrid engine

Talk:Gas-electric hybrid engine now redirects here - see #Completed merge from Gas-electric hybrid engine, below.

  Hi  I'm looking to change  my car to a hybrid  is there any way to do so? 
 ggmosionier@excite.com  I have a 1984 renault feugo

It's much harder to convert a car from gasoline to hybrid than it is to make it a pure electric (for instance). Start by checking out hybrid and electric vehicle discussion groups at Yahoo Groups --Felixkramer 06:09, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I thought GM's EV1 is a pure electric car. The last statement of this article does not match the article about EV1. Can some car buff fix this up? Kowloonese 22:46, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I deleted the discussion of the EV1 as a hybrid--it was always a pure electric vehicle --Felixkramer 06:09, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC).

[edit] Merge?

Done --Singkong2005 ^{(t - c - WPID)} 13:50, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Completed merge from Gas-electric hybrid engine

No objections (see comments above), so I made Gas-electric hybrid engine and its talk page into redirects, and merged some material that didn't seem to be covered here. A couple of things I'm not sure about, so I've copied them here:

Because the engine recharges the battery smaller batteries are required than in an electric vehicle.

Makes sense, but the article makes varying statements about battery size for different types of hybrids. Is it safe to generalize, that hybrids always have a smaller battery requirement than all-electric vehicles?

The battery storage and electric motor allows the engine to operate at its point of maximum efficiency, to be of a higher efficiency design, and to be smaller than non-hybrid applications.

(Emphasis mine). It seems plausible that if the engine is not required to operate in a wide range, that could allow greater optimization for fuel efficiency. Is this true? --Singkong2005 ^{(t - c - WPID)} 13:50, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why are gasoline-electrics more common than diesel-electric?

Perhaps someone can solve this mystery for me.

The article says, correctly, that Diesels are excellent at delivering constant power for long periods of time, suffering less wear while operating at higher efficiency. It seems that diesels-electric would be a far better choice for a hybrid. So why are the main hybrid vehicles, such as the Prius, all gasoline-electric? Is it just because they were aiming for the US market? --Singkong2005 ^{(t - c - WPID)} 13:57, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Rather than why gasoline-electric is more common than Diesel-electric, why not just ask why gasoline cars are more common than Diesel? Mackerm 22:03, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Double cost penalty is another factor, diesels cost more than regular gas engines. Add in the cost of a hybrid and it gets pricey. The question "why so few diesels?" is perhaps not accurate, they are close to half the passenger car market in Europe. More accurate might be "why so few diesels in USA?", and follow up "is it just a coincidence that the Big Three aren't considered strong in diesels and regulations on diesel are so, ahem, non-optimal?"--Gregalton 22:27, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

The big 3 don't sell many diesels compared to Europe because of much cheaper fuel in the USA. They'll sell whatever they think will make them a reliable profit - although my experience at GM Truck & Bus made me wonder why they were even in business. For my use, I've never found a diesel competitive. Capital cost & maintenance costs never justified fuel savings.Twslandlord 18:57, 2 March 2007 (UTC)twslandlord

[edit] unsourced text on plug-in hybrids

Car companies are working on plug-in hybrids, but current technology makes do not perform well."

What does the above mean? Is the above sentence trying to say that prototypes for electric hybrids have not preformed well due to issues with current technology? Thus should be made clearer if it is to be added back. Also, sources should be added that support the claim about the issues with current technology.

According to Dave Hermance, the Executive Engineer for Advanced Technology for Toyota North America, a plug-in hybrid in "electricity mode is only capable of 35 miles an hour top speed. It has fairly glacial acceleration performance and cost 15 to 25 thousand dollars more money."

The above should be sourced. Also, hasn't any plug-in hybrid advocates disputed the claims this a guy is making? The opposing view should be added to be NPOV. These claims seem all to similar to the controversial claims made by automakers regarding battery electric vehicles. --Cab88 21:57, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Expensive Hybrid Costs

My girlfriends family got a letter from Honda, offering to buy back their Insight. They said that they have to replace the hybrid battery every eight years and that it cost $8000.00 to replace it. There's no mention of that on here. Is it true?

they wound up not taking the offer, 'cause Honda didn't say why they wanted it back.--70.38.72.140 04:53, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Car companies offering to buy back cars after N years is a common sales technique (the more cynical might call it a scam). Afterall if you sell them back your current car you'll then need a new one! I got such a letter about my VW when it was roughly 2 years old. The comment about the battery was probably just supposed to be additional incentive. Plymouths 02:11, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Long article warning

Edit this article and get the message:

This page is 72 kilobytes long. This may be longer than is preferable; see article size.

32k is considered a good limit, so this really should be broken into sub-articles. I recommend at least adding {{template:verylong}} to this to alert editors. Brianhe 16:55, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

I made change discussed above. Would like to hear feedback on breaking out Types of hybrid vehicles into its own page and just having a short summary in this article. A similar approach was taken with Motorcycle and Types of motorcycle. Brianhe 03:52, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Created Types of hybrid vehicle as discussed above. Brianhe 06:21, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

I restructured Types of hybrid vehicle and enhanced it with pictures illustrating the different structures, so that it may effectively replace the Types section in Hybrid vehicle, which can be substantially shortened. I would propose to replace it with a reference to the Types article, and leave just an overview of the main types (series, parallel, and combined) with diagrams for illustration. LHOON 08:17, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

I propose changing the section Hybrids currently available. I am not in agreement that the "main article" related to Hybrids currently available is the List of hybrid vehicles, as stated above at the top of the section, but I think that it does not have a relevant "main article". I don't agree that that list is as informative as this section. The information under this section would do well in its own "main article" that is not a list. So, to sum up my proposal, condense the section Hybrids currently available into a summarized form and put most of the information into its own new page.

A different way of handling this is to simply condense the section without forming a new page, because each subsection has its own main article; however, this would limit the connectivity and information, by not having a new article, and would possible require having "main articles" to go along with Other military vehicles, Taxicabs, and Two-wheeled vehicles. 129.123.104.5 02:56, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

I created a new page Petroleum electric hybrid vehicle because that is what most people wanted to talk about and moved most of the current content there. Perhaps it was too bold of a move or perhaps the right thing. Daniel.Cardenas 20:05, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

Personally I think it was a good call. I switched hybrid car to redirect to the new article since all of the car-related stuff went there and it seemed more appropriate. Should probably also create a redirect for gas electric hybrid vehicle for us silly americans :) . Plymouths 20:09, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

I think this was a good move as well because it gives us light vehicle enthusiasts more room to describe hybrid cycle and velomobile technology (I've done a bit today). --Theosch 18:59, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Kind of off topic but wondering if you think this hybrid sail boat belongs in the article: http://www.autobloggreen.com/2006/11/28/heard-of-regenerative-braking-how-about-regenerative-sailing/ Daniel.Cardenas 02:05, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

Actually hybrid boats do interest me a lot, but I havn't looked around yet where such things should best go. I'll come back here later --Theosch 18:59, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Truck

Are there any hybrid trucks ? . --Mac 14:32, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Depend what you mean by truck: GM offer Silverado, Ford the Escape (SUV), see the list in the WIKI Hybridvehicles article, compiled by the US gov. If you mean real 'Truck'; plenty, and they're nearly all refuse trucks, attempting to reduce urban emissions, where the extra weight of the batteries being schlepped about is made up for by the intensive urban usage of the vehicles. See 'Diesel Engine Progress' for occasional reporting of such introductions.Graumicchie 22:30, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spelling errors

The "Hydrogen" section appears to be pervaded with spelling error. As someone without knowledge of this area, I am unable to correct it. It's just distracting to read. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Macetw (talk • contribs) 04:29, 17 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Verifying Patents

US Patents referenced in this article may be verified by going to US US patent number search and entering the patent number. --Theosch 13:06, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Remove "Fairs with hybrid vehicles" section?

I think the section "Fairs with hybrid vehicles" should be removed because soon every automotive fair will present hybrid vehicles. --Theosch 10:04, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

• • I agree. A section for fairs specifically for hybrid/alternative transportation may warrant a section. But just because a hybrid is there shouldn't be sufficient. Improbcat 19:14, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Hybridisation: link or stub?

193.145.201.53 insists on an own stub section for hybridisation. Is this in order to write something more about it? As it is, the information only warrants a link. What do others think? --Theosch 14:31, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

• AS of now there is no content there, and a link to a disambiguation page that is completely unrelated. I'd say someone either needs to write some content there, or create a new page at say, hybridisation (vehicle) and link there. But I can't think of any useful content to put up there without it immediately turning into a link farm or how-to article. Improbcat 19:05, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

• I removed the section and link when I re-did the article. If someone either creates the page it links to, or provides some content they can put that section back in again. Improbcat 16:18, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

• The term hybridisation in reference to vehicles appears to be borderline on a neologism, but might be legitimate to conversion of a vehicle into a true hybrid. I reverted edits to a number of articles where someone appeared to be attempting to re-define the meaning of hybrid to include autogas conversions, which of course use the same engine as petrol. --Athol Mullen 22:47, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Single engine is not hybrid

I note that the section of multi-fuelling (flexible fuel, dual fuel, etc) appears to suggest that some people believe that these are hybrids. Unless someone can reference this with a reliable source, this really should be re-written to clearly state that multiple fuels in one engine are not hybrids. Reducto absurdium, any engine with a knock sensor could be called a hybrid under this definition, since they can adapt to different fuel quality. --Athol Mullen 22:47, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] 4 Engines, powers and fuel sources

My god is this section a mess. It seems to not know the basic functional differences between diesel and gasoline type engine, notes different fuels for gas engines *after* the article section on diesels. Gives incorrect info on them etc. I'm going to copy over that whole section to my user page and work on rebuilding it. I strongly encourage folks to come over and help work on it. I will post a note about the updated version here for review before pasting it back in. Improbcat 19:05, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

• • On second thought. After reviewing Petroleum electric hybrid vehicle and Types of hybrid vehicle I think we would be better served by mostly gutting the above section and primarily redirecting to those two articles. There is no need to duplicate the information here when those articles cover it more clearly and in greater detail. So that is the direction I'm goign to go with my re-write. Once again I'd like help and will post a note here before merging it back into the article. Improbcat 19:29, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for improving it. I doubt anyone would mine if you made the edits directly to the page rather then slowly on your user page. Daniel.Cardenas 19:32, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

I usually do the edits on my user page so that I can pick it up and leave it off as I get time. Without worrying about half-completed sentences, broken links, etc. Improbcat 19:59, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Major revision and purging completed

I purged over 14,000 characters from the Engines, powers and fuel sources , and in fact renamed that section to Petroleum-electric hybrids. The old section was loaded with a combination of material redundant to (and apparently lifted from) Petroleum electric hybrid vehicle, and a lot of information on different types of fuel for and types of internal combustion engines, which has little to do with hybrid cars, and seriously bloated an article that was supposed to be about any kind of hybrid vehicle. I also trimmed the bicycles section ,and combined the two sections on motorized bicycles. Finally I added a short history bit, jsut to expand the idea of what could be considered a hybrid.Improbcat 02:12, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

On the whole I think a good revision. I'll be checking a bit more closely to see if perhaps a bit too much was chopped. In any case, I think the "controversial" tag could be removed.--Theosch 09:59, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Compare section/link removed

I removed the recently added Compare section as it only applied to petroleum-electric hybrid cars. And as such didn't need it's own section in this article. In addition the link in the section is a duplicate of a link in the Petroleum electric hybrid vehicle article and as such is redundant. Improbcat 17:45, 5 March 2007 (UTC)