Talk:Hurricane Donna

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Contents 1 Personal story 2 "Every inch of the east coast" 3 Todo 4 Most intense landfalling table 5 Reanalysis 6 Todo2 7 Hurricane Donna Satellite Image Incorrect

[edit] Personal story

The following was inserted into the article by DFRafter887, but was removed because it doesn't fit encyclopedia style. I felt it might be of enough interest to repost it here on the talk page. -- Cyrius|✎ 12:20, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I was 14 years old when I went through Hurricane Donna on the island of Grassey Key in the Florida Keys. My family's home was on the Gulf front of the island. My aunt, with whom I lived, invited some of her friends to join us in the shelter of our home, which my aunt thought to be impervious to hurricanes. The home was constructed of concrete blocks and poured concrete and sat well above sea level, the porch being on concrete pillars. We had large a salt water swimming pool which was in the shape of an "L", a part of which was screened in on the porch.

At that time, Milton Santini had his porpoise training school across the bay and had nowhere for the porpoise to weather the storm. My aunt invited him to put some of his porpoise in our salt water pool for the storm. He did and I really can't quite remember how many there were in there. There were at least 3, one of which was "Mitzi" who was the original Flipper. The porpoise made it through the storm, but needless to say, after the hurricane passed, the pool was a total mess, as porpoise are mammals.

I got sidetracked remembering the porpoise. I'll get back to the story.

I remember the purple lightening during Hurricane Donna and how the wind howled. My aunt must have had a premonition because she made some of the men who were in the house get a mattress and put it over our plate glass doors in the living room by the porch. No sooner than they did this, both glass doors broke. We would have all been badly injured had the matresses not been in place. After the doors broke, everyone went up to the upstairs with the wind and seaweed flying past our heads. It was very frightening! The waves were washing through the house as we went up the stairs to the second floor. One of the guests lost his presence of mind and went around breaking the windows in the upstairs. His reasoning was to let the pressure out. My best friend and I huddled in the shower, praying that we would be alright.

We all made it through Hurricane Donna, but with a hefty respect for the weather. My home was seriously damaged, and I remember my aunt having to obtain an SBA loan in order to make the repairs. After than time we went through Hurricane Betsy and Inez, but neither was as severe as Hurricane Donna.

We had two windmills at our home. One watered the lawn, and the other pumped salt water into our swimming pool. After Hurricane Donna both windmills were broken, but one windmill still stands, but is not operable. This I saw upon a visit that I made to the Keys and to my former home. After my aunt died, the home was sold, and I now live in Northwest Arkansas.

Something to think about is when did hurricane seeding go into effect? There was discussion [and still is] that the government had seeded Hurricane Donna, trying to lessen it, but created a monster of a storm. I find it rather strange that when hurricanes are named on the television or radio now, Hurricane Donna is not mentioned as the severe hurricane that she was. Was it because the government has downplayed the "seeding" of Hurricane Donna? Think about it.

Thanks for letting me write here. If you have any comments, my e-mail address is <removed to prevent spam harvesting>.

Well...considering that there have been several hurricanes (Andrew, Georges, Camille, Hugo, Mitch, and now Charley and Ivan, and a few others as well), it's not surprising that it isn't viewed as one of the worst hurricanes, although yes it is bad. Btw, I don't think Donna was seeded. bob rulz 00:24, Dec 10, 2004 (UTC)

It wasn't, and predated the seeding attempts by a year. See Project Stormfury. -- Cyrius|✎ 02:12, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

[edit] "Every inch of the east coast"

Article says "it is the only storm to produce hurricane-force winds on every inch of the east coast". However this is surely not true. From the best track (s:Atlantic hurricane best track):

HRBFL4 NC3 NY3DFL2 CT2 RI2 MA1 NH1 ME1

meaning it brought cat4 winds to SW Florida, Cat3 winds to NC and NY, cat2 winds to NE florida, CT, RI, and cat1 winds to MA NH and ME. Note there is no mention of SC, GA, or VA at all, nor of southeast florida (CFL). Jdorje 04:36, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

Not that this storm wasn't incredible, though...the NC3/NY3 is amazing, and surely deserves mention. Jdorje 04:41, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Todo

More impact...maybe the personal story quoted above can be of use here (would that be an appropriate thing to add to wikisource?). Jdorje 21:15, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Most intense landfalling table

Usefulness of the table? Andrew was much more intense at landfall than Katrina was. The table ranks most intense hurricanes that also happened to make landfall, but not based on landfall intensity. We should be very clear when ranking landfalling hurricanes, and only use intensity at landfall. Otherwise it's apples and oranges, isn't it? DavidH 06:28, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

No, Andrew (922 mbar) was less intense at landfall than Katrina (920) was. The table is indeed ranked by landfall intensity. — jdorje (talk) 16:57, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I know -- the data I understand, the title invites misunderstanding. An average reader sees "U.S. landfalling" and I think assumes it means the data is at the time of U.S. landfall. I'd like to see a table with that criteria for this article. DavidH 21:19, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

The data is at the time of U.S. landfall. Or perhaps I'm not understanding what you're saying...can you make up a list as you think it should be shown? — jdorje (talk) 21:20, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

Hmmm, is that right? Katrina made U.S. landfall as a Cat 3, but it had lower pressure than Andrew as a Cat 5 at its U.S. landfall? Maybe I'm not understanding something. Since only Labor Day, Andrew, and Camille are recorded as making U.S. landfall as Cat 5's, I was sure they'd beat all. But if that's the data, then that's the data. Just wanted to be sure we're not showing Katrina's lowest pressure from another point in its life. Sorry that I haven't had time to re-read the final reports to confirm this, I'll of course leave it alone until I can do that. Thanks for the reply. -- DavidH 16:30, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

(BTW, my edit summary on my last comment should have said "Gulf", not "Yucatan." I had Wilma on the brain.) DavidH 16:36, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

That is correct. The reason is that Katrina was an extraordinarily large storm with a large eye and broad pressure gradient, while andrew was a very small storm with a small eye and tight pressure gradient. — jdorje (talk) 17:45, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

Yes, Andrew was small, which helped my house come through it undamaged. I understand that the Labor Day hurricane was very small too, possibly smaller than Andrew, with an incredibly tight gradient that made it so fierce at the center. Thanks for the clarification. -- DavidH 23:59, 30 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reanalysis

This hurricane was part of the Atlantic hurricane reanalysis project, so all figures will need double-checking with this. Titoxd^(?!?) 23:17, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

All 'canes are part of that project ;) At this time, this hasn't been officially accepted into HURDAT so where the HURDAT gives a figure that figure must be used. With the rather more detailed info in that report, any extra information is ok.--Nilfanion (talk) 23:26, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Todo2

More info in the impact, a preparations section, aftermath section and figure out how to get rid of that whitespace in the storm history section. Storm05 14:29, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

The whitespace is from a forced {{clear}}. – Chacor 14:31, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hurricane Donna Satellite Image Incorrect

The satellite image that is currently being shown on the main article page is incorrect. This is actually a composited image of Hurricane Alicia (before landfall in Galveston) superimposed over a McIDAS topography grid of Southern Florida. This image was created for a presentation during the 1984 National Hurricane Conference and was intended to represent a "What if" scenario, for a small intense hurricane striking the Florida Keys. Somehow, this image was incorrectly published in the revised edition of the book "Florida Hurricanes & Tropical Storms" as being "Donna".

Besides the fact that I personally attended the 1984 Hurricane Conference and saw this image during the actual presentation, there are a number of other reasons why this cannot be a satellite photo of Donna:

• In 1960, weather satellite imagery was completely brand new, the very first image being sent only five months before Donna's landfall. The quality of those original TIROS I images was nowhere near that of the image that's currently on the Donna article and they didn't have topography outlines back then (unless someone drew them in by hand).
• Donna was a significantly larger hurricane than what is shown in that image based on radar presentations from Miami and Key West.
• Donna's center crossed the Keys near Marathon, due north of the position of the storm shown in the photo (the composite image shows the storm over the Florida Straits, mid-way between Cuba and the Keys)... extrapolating a northwest motion from where the photo shows the center would have Donna crossing the Keys somewhere between Big Pine and Key West.
• Most importantly, there was no IR weather imagery in 1960, only visible light. Given that Donna crossed the Keys in the middle of the night (near 0300 UTC), there is no way, in 1960, that there would have been any imagery at that time of the night.

Here is a link to a side-by-side comparisonimage that I put together to show an actual Alicia AVHRR image from a couple of hours after the purported 'Donna' image, compared to the image currently on the main article page.

Unless anyone has a different perspective, I will change the image to good resolution radar photo that actually does show Hurricane Donna.

--Michael Laca 08:00, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

If you don't mind, I'll email the NHC for clarification? If they say they indeed made a mistake then yeah, change it. – Chacor 08:12, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

NHC emailed. – Chacor 08:29, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

Not a problem at all, I'm sure they'll have no problem verifying, though it probably wasn't the NHC that made the mistake, its more likely to have been the authors of the book "Florida Hurricanes & Tropical Storms" who incorrectly used the image. --Michael Laca 09:21, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

NHC responded. It's not Donna, but not Alicia either, apparently. The email response includes a quote from Dr. Pasch from 1998:

"A geostationary satellite photograph, purportedly of Hurricane Donna (1960), is actually one of Hurricane Anita (1977) with altered map graphics."

– Chacor 14:38, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

Believe me it is Alicia, Richard probably didn't look at the image too closely. He is a good friend of mine, we actually chased Hurricane Elena together back in 1985 with Jim Leonard. I'll e-mail him to clarify. Alicia and Anita did look very similar, so I can see how he might be easily be confused. --Michael Laca 03:32, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

Just an update, Richard Pasch responded to my e-mail today:

"Mike, Yes, I think you are right -- it does look more like Alicia than Anita. Too late to issue a correction to my review of the book "Florida Hurricanes and Tropical Storms" where I commented on this picture. Far more importantly, the image is definitely NOT one of Hurricane Donna."

--Michael Laca 21:27, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm surprised they responded so quickly. Alright, that works. Hurricanehink (talk) 14:54, 26 March 2007 (UTC)