Talk:Huna
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Hello I believe the article could benefit from a reference or two. Especially this statement; Anthropologists, historians, and other experts view Huna as yet another spiritualist/New Age invention of bogus ancient mysteries, like Theosophy and Lobsang Rampa.
I have no wish to remove the statement because it seems true enough from what I have seen. A reference would strenghten the validity. And I'm looking for info on Huna for a master's dissertation:)D.Right 10:17, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
- Yup, references would help. I wrote the original article, and did a whole heck of a lot of clicking around, and I didn't keep a record of the sites I visited. I even visited the library to look at a copy of one of King's books, but I don't think I cited it. I was a new editor in those days.
- So I can't help you. All I can say is that I do have a master's degree, and I have done a fair bit of archival research in Hawaiian history, and I think Huna is a crock. But I'm not published, or tenured, or even -- for that matter -- employed, so I don't count as a reference <g>. All I can advise is strenuous googling, which is what I did. Zora 10:55, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
Thanks anyway, Zora. I will have a trawl around. Actually I know a large native Hawaiian family and they told me that huna was just second hand new age bunk. But the father was a little concerned though, because where he grew up they believe their original religion involves debt (like most others). If you practice Hawaiian occult, even for good, you build up a bebt that you will never pay off. Actually I believe he really means it will just screw up your mind and emotions and encourage long term delusions, hypochondria and paranoia:) Cheers D.Right 03:22, 15 August 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Huna and neopaganism
Huna may be bunk, and (but?) it is also a Neopagan thing, I guess. Not all Neopagan attempts to spread the message of older religions are actually faithful to the original religions, after all. 204.52.215.107 01:30, 16 October 2005 (UTC)
[edit] The Big Kahuna
Akulkis, the sentence in question concerned the use of kahuna in the Hawaiian language, not in English, not in contemporary American slang. Zora 02:05, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Anon's edits
An anon edited this page, removing material that WAS ethnographically and historically correct, and replacing it with woo-woo material stated as fact.
If the anon wants to try to come up with a "Huna-follower's view of Huna" we can put that in the article. Zora 11:33, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Ethnographic errors
Parsing "kahuna" as "kahu na" is made-up etymology. Kahuna is simply the Hawaiian form of an old old proto-Polynesian word found in all Polynesian languages. In Tongan it takes the form "tufunga" and has nothing to do with protecting (tauhi).
Linking to a huna site for info on ho'oponopono and calling the practice "huna kalani" is similarly misleading. In thirty years in Hawai'i I have never heard ho'oponopono called "huna kalani". No Hawaiian who practices ho'oponopono has ever, to my knowledge, refered to it as huna, or expressed any solidarity with haole New Age Huna practicioners.
I don't think that there has been a good ethnographic treatment of what survives of Hawaiian spirituality, in ho'oponopono, lomilomi, and hula, or even in Hawaiian Christian congregations. As it exists, the spirituality is deeply mingled with a Hawaiian folk Christianity that anthropologists have just filtered out, as irrelevant. It's not, IMHO.
Soulwork, whenever you try to give a Hawaiian heritage to what you do, you are can be shot down. But if you just present what you DO, and say that it works for you, or for the people you treat, then that's a claim that can be put forward. It's open to a different kind of evaluation (studies of medical or psychological effectiveness) but not to invalidation of historical claims. Zora 21:31, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Some Huna basics
Of course there are New Age Huna practitioners, some of them probably charlatans. That doesn't negate the basic precept of Huna, “the harmless, helpful life.” There's no way we can know the true history of Huna. One school of thought believes the Huna people were enslaved in ancient Egypt, rebelled and escaped to spread their beliefs through much of the world, influencing many religions. Some say Jesus and Buddha were Huna masters. Max Freedom Long's book “The Huna Code in Religions” explores Huna's impact on the mystery teachings underlying Christianity, Yoga, and Buddhism. Long went to Hawaii in 1917 as a teacher and studied the belief system he called Huna for many years. Maybe he got it right, maybe not. Maybe the natives he spoke with were just playing with him. See [1] for some details of his work. Some Huna teachings, such as the concept of the three selves, survive as scientific theory today, in what modern psychotherapists call the "super-ego," "ego," and "id," or "super-conscious," "conscious," and "unconscious." Breathing exercises and massage are widely found to be effective, and the power of prayer in healing is studied by mainstream scientists. Studying Huna is worthwhile, whether you conclude it's the source of religions, or that religious belief systems have all somehow come to the same basic conclusion, that treating others kindly will bring you benefits and harming others will eventually hurt you. Regards. Sophie
- Ridiculous, foundationless material doesn't fly here. You're statements are delusional, similar to saying that the gummy bears built the the Eifel tower. Max Freedom Long was a quack. No academic scholar would claim that some kind of Huna people were enslaved in Egypt, unless the person was a psychotic, or a cult member, or the leader of a cult. --Maxwell230 22:33, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Anderson was a kahuna and spoke Hawaiian fluently?
I'm skeptical about the statement that Victor Anderson was a kahuna and spoke Hawaiian fluently, being that the reference attempting to substantiate the claim is a website dedicated to his spiritualism and written by people identifying with Anderson's spiritual practice. Therefore, the reference is biased and uncredible. I'm going to return the statement to its version before the augmentation performed by Soul Fire. --Maxwell230 07:09, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Interested Oursiders
Aloha, I was a personal haumana (student) of Kahuna Nui Max Freedom Long. I entered Huna in 1962, and was ordained as a Kahuna `o Huna, by Kahuna Max in his front room in Vista, Ca. in 1968, and joined the HRA, the inner circle of Huna at that point. I was certified as a Huna Teacher by HRI in 1983. I was apprenticed to Kahuna Fred Kimball who initiated me into the Huna lore of Clairesthesia, taught the Huna "Aumakua Therapy" by the Huna Kupuna, Kahuna Beau Kitselman's wife, Betsy, after he died on me. And a lot of other stuff. I am the third Mo`i (Founder) of the State Chartered "Huna Heiau Church" in California, which has a total of four na Kahuna at this point. A Firewalk priest (Kahuna I Ke Umu Ki), a TMHG Prayer Priest (Kahuna Haku Pule), etc. I had a Huna healing practice in professional offices in Corte Madera for over 12 years. Doing Huna healings, Kalas (Exorcisms) and Defending others from cults and other pilikia.
Most of the articles here are from friendly, and scholarshiped outsiders. The only huna known to me to be active today is the Huna Heiau Church http://the-light-of-huna.com/, and the other, founded by Kahuna James Venable Alexander http://www.hunalife.org/, good reference material may be had from: http://www.hunamind.info/directory/ (neither of them do I have association with, nor have ever met, except by email).
But everything I read here is from a single POV. Every single thing is Max Freedom Long this and Max Freedom Long that!
You'd think the beloved kumu (Teacher), and second Mo`i of Huna, Kahuna Nui Max Freedom Long was the only leader of the Huna Movement. But he wasn't. To make just one point, the Huna kupuna (Huna Elder), Kahuna Oscar Brunler's Huna lore of Psychometric Analysis laid much of the foundation of the Huna theology, as expressed to us HRAs in the HRA Bulletins and Huna Vistas Newsletters (1948-1971). It is the Psychometric Analysis studies which found the Demonic Entities in charge of countries through voluntary possession of their political leaders, which proved "Evolutionary Consciousness", which turned us into Warriors by measuring the speed of evolution towards Graduation into a new Aumakua, and we did studies of baby pictures and pictures of them when they had just died, and saw the changes in their Biometric levels, and then looked at their life histories to see the commonalities between those who didn't evolve much, and those who did, explained to us what it meant, and all the rest...
Yet I see no statements about that part of the Huna theology here.
And no knowledge of Kahuna Oscar or any of the other kupuna in the Wikipedia site!
Everyone keeps on saying, as if they repeated it often enough, it'd become real, that Max said that he was taught by Hawaiian kahunas. He never did. He was adopted and initiated into what would become Huna, by a white guy, Called by the native Hawaiians "Kahuna Ha`ole Nui" (Great White Priest) William Tufts Brigham, first Director and Curator of the Bernice P. Bishop Museum in Honolulu and a great miracle worker, and Kahuna Max taught the ways of mana (mesmerism) by Kahuna Baron Eugene Fersen...Kahuna Nui Max Freedom Long taught that Huna was founded in Honolulu in 1872.
Huna is classified by theologians as part of the classic "New Thought" religious movement of c. 1860's in America, and NOT "New Age". Related to "Church of Religious Science", "Unity", etc.
And they speak of "Kahuna" as if that wasn't a general Polynesian term and a Huna term, not just a Hawaiian one.
Oh yeah, "Kahuna" isn't mysterious. It just means "Priest", just as "Padre", "Pope", "Rabbi", "Imam" all do, and more. (Well, Pope really means, "papa". "Holy" just means reserved for religious purposes, so the Roman Catholic Pope, means Roman Catholic Holy Father, or "Father reserved for religious purposes." (Go figure...)
- The ha`ole etymology of haole was put to rest here some time ago. [2].
- Aloha, Max Freedom Long repeatedly wrote that he was not a kahuna, and that Brigham was not a kahuna. As just one example, in The Secret Science at Work he wrote, "But what he [Brigham] was unable to discover was how the kahunas performed their miracles." (p. 6) "Many who had read my last book sought healing of the body by means of some kahuna, in spite of the fact that I had stated that there are no practicing kahuna now left in Hawaii, and that I myself am not a kahuna." (p. 12) He never said in any of his books that either of them were kahuna, nor did he make any such claims in the Bulletins.
- Long was wrong that there were no kahuna left in Hawaii, but he was certainly right that he and Brigham were not kahuna. Makana Chai 19:15, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
[edit] HUNA: New Age or New Thought?
I have made two different articles on Huna on Wikipedia, so that I wouldn't step on anyone's toes here.
Also I am in a quandry here. Who is the best type of person to make an Encyclopedia entry on a religion? A devotee and priest of that religion or an intelligent and informed outsider, a sort of athiest or agnostic to that religion? I think it is best to offer both points of view. But really, what is the person seeking who looks up an article? If they were to look up, "Unity" (another New Thought religion, like Huna) what would be their need which we would seek to fill? Isn't that the question?
I edited the article here a little. I couldn't figure out how to make it back to berfore I edited it.
I'd like it to be as I found it, with the exception of adding a link to "Huna Religion".
And I'd like to change the catagory here. Huna isn't New Age. It never was. It is New Thought, formatted after the Church of Religious Science.
Does anyone object to that change?
If not, how do I change it?...
Aloha,
Kahuna Lani, the newbie
[edit] Huna article should follow Unity Church template
Aloha! The question raised by several postings above is what Point of View (POV) should be expressed in this article. Look at the article on Unity just as an example, and it includes not only who is involved, but also the organizations, numbers, detailed history and theology. I hope someone would do something like that for Huna.
Regarding New Age versus New Thought, in my opinion the two terms refer to the same perspective in different time frames. "New thought" was the late 19th to mid-20th centuries, and then it was New Age. I would call both Unity and Huna New Thought because they were popularized in the old days.
Regarding "New Age," at the Maui Writer's Conference a couple of years ago, one of the publishers speaking at a panel discussion on the "New Age" market said that young people today don't know what New Age means. I forget what it's called now. Makana Chai 06:34, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Notes on Major Revision
Aloha. I tried to make the article a little more objective. I quote the Huna website that officially carries on Long's work. I omitted references to Victor Anderson - according to the website the references were pointing to, he did not teach it, just "knew" it, and all that is there are links to some Huna books.
I took out the assertion that "their followers are generally non-Hawaiian." Though true, I personally know of many Native Hawaiians who believe in Huna. However, I can't cite a source on that so just left it out for now.
Makana Chai 23:43, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
- Thanks. Seems like a reasonable revision. It amazes me that there are Hawaiians who take it seriously, but I think you are more likely to have met them than I am.
- There's one major problem with the revision -- it's got several unreferenced opinions. Frex, Huna theory as simply a translation of Freudian theory. I suspect that this is what you see in it, and if I recall what I read of Huna correctly, I agree with you. However, it's original research and we're not supposed to do it. Of course, the problem is that I don't think any academics, or even journalists, have investigated Huna. We're both working on what we've read or just observed living in the islands. So I'm not going to complain :) Perhaps what you need to do is publish an article on Huna somewhere and then we can cite it. Zora 01:06, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
- Zora, you da best! I'm writing the article right now, but it's turning into a book. I am comparing all aspects of Long's book, Secret Science, to published oral histories of kahuna. The kahuna confirm Long's stories, but not his theories. Anyway, see the re-write.
Makana Chai 08:24, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] propaganda noise...again
it never ceases to amaze me how an encyclopedic endeavor can be wrapped up into becoming nothing more than a propaganda mouthpeice.
What you have here is an article that invalidates native hawaiian practices, much like the propagandist noise that gardener "invented" wicca. what tripe and trash!
- not sure which version this refers to, but current looks fine to me, moreover Huna is not Hawaiian, but MFL's invetion, though he of course based his Huna mostly on Hawaiian teachings. Anyway I have seen many versions of this Huna entry and most were completely off and biased.
i was going around looking for a good reference or two on the subject,.... this isn't it.
This is Christianity and western propagandist revisionist histories, and thats all it is.
"But everything I read here is from a single POV. Every single thing is Max Freedom Long this and Max Freedom Long that!"
- Of course: that's because MFL made Huna.
of course it is, this is the "huna is stupid" introduction to Huna. Its designed to cleverly invalidate huna, while all the while seeming "neutral" to the uneducated mind. Trash!
- Aloha, I'm an editor of a Bishop Museum book on Hawaiian healing traditions and wrote most of the current entry. I'm currently researching for a book on Huna. Max Freedom Long was the first person to use the word Huna to describe a set of practices and beliefs, some of which are Hawaiian and some of which are not.
- I do think Huna principles are valuable and have helped many people, myself included. My concern is that Hawaiian traditions not be misrepresented.
- Huna is based on Hawaiian, but is not Hawaiian. I'm always having good fun how some Hawaiian people are so touchy about Huna. Their's is Ho'o'mana, not Huna.
- I think it would be appropriate to have this article made into sections, and to have a section or sections outlining Huna beliefs and principles, as well as a section on the controversy. All good faith edits are welcomed! Makana Chai 19:51, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Newest Revision
Following my own advice above, I have followed the templates set by Unity Church and also on the NLP page. I have listed the history of the use of the word Huna, some Huna organizations and their beliefs and principles, followed by a section on the controversy. I believe this is more objective. I encourage others to continue to refine this article. Makana Chai 01:25, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
