Talk:Howie Carr

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article must adhere to the policy on biographies of living persons. Controversial material of any kind that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libelous. If such material is repeatedly inserted or there are other concerns relative to this policy, report it on the living persons biographies noticeboard.

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.	Biography Portal
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the Project's quality scale. Please rate the article and then leave a short summary here to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article. [FAQ]

Contents 1 Full Name 2 Mike Barnicle 3 The "Fat Bastard" Edit War 4 No proof 5 Flunkie Wars 6 Wikipedia:Cite your sources 7 Divorced! 8 The Howie Carr Show section 9 second marriage 10 Nicknames

[edit] Full Name

The article lists his full name as "Howard Louis Carr, Jr.," but in an introduction to his show, the anouncer says (in an exaggerated Boston accent) "Howard Lawrence Carr." Does anyone know if his middle name is Louis or Lawrence? Also, is it Jr., or not? I'm guessing that it's Lawrence, since I don't see why he'd have the wrong name announced on his own promo/intro. I'm changing it to Lawrence, and dropping the Jr. Of course, this now contradicts the part of the article where it lists his father as Howard Louis Carr, Sr. Beat's me, figure it out.

I didn't realise his middle name had been changed back to Louis - I thought we'd confirmed it as Lawrence. His father's middle name may well be Louis; this wouldn't affect the use of "Sr.", since that comes into play for first and last names only. Dudesleeper 10:00, 26 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mike Barnicle

Why are you so "hot under the collar" to exclude it? I have no strong feelings one about this fued, but a fued between two leading Boston media personalities seems important enough to include, and you have not provided any compelling reason to exclude it. Certainly it seems more important than the number on Carr's license plate or the fact that Carr counts the number of "uh"s in Ted Kennedy's speeches. I've added the fued to Barnicle's page as well. I would have added it earlier, but as I noted in an edit summary, I only just found Barnicle's article because I've been spelling his name wrong. Gamaliel 16:47, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

Gamaliel clearly has a liberal bias and he is allowing a the quote because Carr is a clear opponent Bill Clinton. If you want Barnicle quotes, make a page for him. But in the meantime, keep that crap out of someone else's bio. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.60.52.200 (talk • contribs) .

I have no idea what Carr thinks of Clinton and I do not care. Please note Wikipedia:No personal attacks, Wikipedia:Civility, Wikipedia:Assume good faith. Also note I added the same information to the Barnicle page. Gamaliel 01:57, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The "Fat Bastard" Edit War

I've been watching that edit war from the sidelines and was wondering about it, as a notation once said that it was used by people calling the Chumpline. If enough Chumpline callers use that specific nickname for him, shouldn't it be included among the list? Since I haven't been able to listen to the show for numerous years (I left the WXTK staff in 1998), I don't know as much about current trends on the show, and wanted to know the controversy surrounding the nickname, and why it should or shouldn't be included. -- EmiOfBrie 17:40, 1 November 2005 (CST)

I think it is because "Fat Bastard" is the nickname Carr coined/uses to describe the senior senator from Massachusetts (Ted Kennedy). I don't see anything wrong with including it in context; saying its is only used by some Chumpline callers, Carr doesn't go by the nickname, and that he primarily uses it to describe Sen. Kennedy. Assawyer 00:04, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

I think we can safely say that that nickname can rightfully describe them both! Dwain 21:44, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Howie is often called a "Fat Bastard" by his listeners and fans.

[edit] No proof

While the referenced howie carr website DOES show that Howie Carr denies the accusations, it doesn't show that there is "no proof this ever happened". If you can cite the total lack of proof thats great, otherwise I think we will have to leave it at him denying it. If you prefer I would also support strengthening the statement by howie carr, perhaps "he unilaterally denys this, saying there is no proof."- Lanoitarus _^(talk) .:. 22:25, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

Do not need to cite proof it did not happen, you need to prove it did to include it. If you have no proof and he has denied it, please provide your source of information that he did. Otherwise any accusations can be included with a demand for proof they did not.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.147.103.146 (talk • contribs) .

I tend to agree with User:24.147.103.146, however I think it is notable that there is nothing in the Globe article other than the contention that Carr gave out the phone number. There is no context of when or in what context Carr gave out the number. The assertion should have the appropriate information to back it up. Wikipedia is not the place for unfounded assertions, and I believe that if the reference to Carr giving out the phone number cannot be substantiated by facts, it should be removed. Assawyer 01:01, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

There is no concrete evidence either way. What there is concrete evidence of is that the globe claims this happened and howie carr claims it did not. Since both the Boston Globe and Howie Carr are relatively reputible sources concerning howie carr, I think both assertions should be included. Note that our article does not anywhere actually claim this happened, just that the globe said it did. It likewise does not claim it did not happen, just that howie said it didnt. As an encyclopedia the correct thing to do in the case of unverifiable situations is present both sides of the argument, not jump to our own conclusions either way. Making any further claims (in either direction) without sources would not be prudent. -Lanoitarus _^(talk) .:. 01:21, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

I agree, thank you Lanoitarus. Can you imagine what it is like to have people you don't even know making claims about you and to have no say in the matter? Just because someone is well known don't think they are not people also. The last thing I have to state is that just because it was in a newspaper does not make it true. We have all seen this recently at the New York Times, The Boston Globe, and other papers. I think the quote is something like "history's first draft" —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.147.103.146 (talk • contribs) .

Yeah, you forgot to mention The Herald and also include what you hear on radio shows too! Dwain 21:45, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Flunkie Wars

Apparently, Howie Carr is sicking some flunkies out after Wikipedia and other websites to claim that anything connected with the Irish mob of Boston is stolen from him!!!

Believe it or not but this is what is happening, apart from some articles that did take paragraphs verbatim from his site, Carr has a flunkie claiming facts as copyrighted information, claiming public domain police photographs as copyrighted material belonging to Carr and generally being a vandal and a pain accusing everyone of stealing who have worked on these articles.

It is not a mistake that this anonymous person is representing Carr because Carr's photographs are now watermarked!

This is a black mark against Carr in my opinion. I guess he isn't joking on the radio when he expresses how cheap he is!!! Dwain 21:33, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps you should stop stealing his material and write your own. I'd advise you to contact Michael Snow or James Wales if you feel that any of the material taken down was not stolen from Howie Carr. Black mark? I'd consider the source.

• Although in his defense, MANY of these were stolen directly from his site, and I imagine if i found that I would be livid as well. -Lanoitarus _^(talk) .:. 22:29, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

While I can't speak about the text in the articles, a number of the photos that were removed, such as mug shots, were in the public domain. Some of the same photos are on the Boston Globe's website about Bulger. They are also on Court TV's web site.

Dubhdara 01:50, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Completely true, Im just saying that some level of understanding might be in order. -Lanoitarus _^(talk) .:. 02:03, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Cite your sources

Look, I'm sure Carr did deny the charge that he gave out Barincle's phone number. But can we have a citation please for this? In an article like this one, which is under attack by anonymous Carr defenders who want to sanitize the article, I don't think it's unreasonable not to take unreferenced claims on faith. Gamaliel 22:35, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

• I can't provide a source, and the linked page on his website seems to have vanished. However, I don't think it is fair to list the accusation without mentioning that Carr refutes the claim. I have heard him refute it on his show (although i have no idea if its true). So yeah, im not sure what to do, Im limiting my input on citations to factual claims of events, such as "this did or did not happen". -Lanoitarus _^(talk) .:. 00:27, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Divorced!

I'm not quite sure why my contribution that Howie Carr is now married to his second wife was reverted. I heard this on Howie Carr's own radio program. Lanoitarus you say that he has refuted this however, when a radio caller called in and mentioned his messy divorce, Howie made no refutations at all. He didn't say it was not true he seemed peeved but all he said was "I can't talk about it." That does not sound like someone who was not married previously. It was a perfect time to put this to bed if it was not true. It seemed obviously true. I thought for legal reasons he couldn't talk about his divorce because of how and what he said. Dwain 20:32, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

• No, I was saying he refuted having given out phone numbers. If I mistakenly put that in a conversation about his wife I appologize for midleading you, i know nothing about Howies marital/relationship status. -Lanoitarus _^(talk) .:. 06:30, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, for misunderstanding I didn't think it was a secret about his being married before though a certain person who seems to have some connection to him seems to want to remove it. Dwain 23:16, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, there seems to be a bit of an edit war going on the subject of his alleged divorce, but I know nothing about his marital status and am not part of that. -Lanoitarus _^(talk) .:. 03:19, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The Howie Carr Show section

This section is so hard to read it just needs to be cleaned up. That's all I'll say. --WCQuidditch ☎ ✎ 03:19, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

Agreed, wholeheartedly. Perhaps it should get its own article? After all, the show is a seperate thing from the person. -Lanoitarus _^(talk) .:. 03:21, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

It looked fine to me, it wasn't "so hard to read it". Maybe it should be in a seperate article, but it looked fine to me! Steven312 00:24, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] second marriage

I removed the "previously married" bit because having a second wife means that you were married once before (whether divorced or a widower). Also the operation to prevent conception is "vasectomy". I'm not sure what that has to do with anything, and whether or not it can be proven to have occured and for what reasons.Dubhdara 04:04, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

In reference to the operation, Carr talked about getting the operation for weeks leading up to it. The surgery was quite the fodder for Virgin Boy and the listeners. Assawyer 12:48, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

I also thought his wife name (not sure if its the second, I never knew he "divorced") was Carolyn when he slipped one time on the air. He normally calls Carolyn as "Submit". Steven312 00:22, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Actually, "Submit" was a pseudonym for his wife, Kathy, not Carolyn. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.67.198.42 (talk) 06:08, 3 February 2007 (UTC).

He used "Submit" as a pseudonym for his wife because for a while she didn't want her name mentioned on the air, I believe due to her working in real estate. Recently in the past year, Carr has stated that his wife doesn't mind him using her name any more. I believe he stated he uses the nickname out of habit. --Assawyer 05:41, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nicknames

This section is becoming nothing more than a list of vitriolic barbs at local Massachusetts politicians. It smacks of heavy handed POV and adds little to the article. Dubhdara 05:02, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

"Vitriolic barbs at local Massachusetts politicians" and "heavy handed POV" is what the Howie Carr Show and Howie Carr are all about. The nicknames Howie uses are a part of his show and are commonly used to describe the people listed. The nicknames are not just some list of jabs at Massachusetts politicians they are in fact used by Howie on his show quite regularly. I do not see the problem with keeping nickname which Howie Carr uses on his own radio show. --Assawyer 05:38, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

I'd rather see the section remove the names and just read that Carr indulges in "Viriolic barbs at local Massachusetts politicians." If you had an article on child pornography you wouldn't need to show it. The article is being used to add Carr's POV and agenda to wikipedia. Dubhdara 21:22, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

If you start doing that, there are numerous articles that you would have to edit to remove the "POV and agenda" of a person who has a Wikipedia article about them. Your example about child pornography is misplaced because possessing and disseminating child pornography is illegal in the United States. A person having a political point of view is not illegal and where it doesn't conflict with Wikipedia standards I don't see a problem with it. If you want to provide verifiable data regarding people's "anti-Carr" criticisms, go ahead - Be Bold! Until then, I don't see a problem with the information. Especially since the nicknames are contextual to his show and has been used by the news media and pop culture. --Assawyer 22:31, 14 June 2006 (UTC)