Talk:Horus Heresy

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is part of WikiProject Warhammer 40,000, an attempt to better organise information in articles related to Warhammer 40,000. If you would like to participate, you can edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.

Contents 1 Dead leaders 2 Route to Terra 3 CCG 4 Vulkan 5 The Istvaan Incidents 6 Istvaan/Isstvan? 7 The Real World Reason for the Horus Heresy 8 The Seige 9 Merge 10 Bad Link 11 In universe tone

[edit] Dead leaders

Because of the lack of indication of the deaths of Horus and the Emperor, I added the symbols indicating their deaths. 05:23, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Route to Terra

Route to Terra - nine of the eighteen or twenty serving Legions? It was changed from 18 to 20 by someone from an IP address known to be used by a vandal, but I don't know enough to be sure if this is correct or otherwise.

That's correct. There were originally twenty legions, but Games Workshop has never revealed any background information for two of them saying all records of them have been lost. the wub "?!" 22:57, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, but it is quite possibly that those two legions/primarchs turned traitors too.--Ariakas 09:44, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] CCG

The CCG is not "omnipotent"; the official line is that "it's all official, but remember that we're reporting back from a time where stories aren't always true." (Marc Gascoigne, 6th post on that page). Hence I have restored the comment about the debate about the validity of the claims in the CCG; if nothing else, it's worth noting that fans have debated the issue.

I always read that the CCG fluff is supposed to be from a God-like viewpoint. While the CCG fluff does not cover everything that happened, it does seem to be backed up by other sources, such as the recent Horus Heresy series of novels. As for the CCG fluff not being true, the same could be said for pretty much all fluff ever written for 40K. Look at the Star Child fluff, or the Index Astartes series, as prime examples of this. The advantage the CCG fluff has over more recent fluff is that it is not biased (i.e the Index Astartes from the Imperials view of the events, 10,000 years after they actually occured). Hence I saw the footnote as irrelevant since all 40K is somewhat questionable as to its validity. Perhaps a solution could be to split up the Horus Heresy page into two sections, one dealing with the events as set down in the Index Astartes (a source of fluff that is strangely more acceptable) and one dealing with the events as set dwon in the CCG. This way those reading the page can see for themselves and believe which version they like. What do people think? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.159.74.228 (talk • contribs) .

Have you read the discussion we've already had about this subject at Wikipedia:WikiProject Warhammer 40,000/Inclusion Guidelines? If you've got a source for your statement that the CCG fluff is supposed to be "super-canonical", please add it on the talk page and let everyone join in the discussion. Cheers --Pak21 11:31, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I hadn't read it before now. I didn't know there was such a thing, but thanks for pointing me in the right direction. Anyway, yes I read it, and I'll paste the same thing here as I did there:

"Here's our standard line: Yes it's all official, but remember that we're reporting back from a time where stories aren't always true, or at least 100% accurate. if it has the 40K logo on it, it exists in the 40k universe. Or it was a legend that may well have happened. Or a rumour that may or may not have any truth behind it. Let's put it another way: anything with a 40K logo on it is as official as any Codex... and at least as crammed full of rumours, distorted legends and half-truths." - Marc Gascoigne

So, then why is the CCG fluff considered less canonical than other fluff?

The CCG is produced by a company that isn't Games Workshop. Companies producing licenced works have been known to get things wrong or make misrepresentations before. Where the CCG and the stuff published by GW conflict, GW canon must have priority. Sojourner001 16:27, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

The above opinion expressed by Sojourner seems to be more a fan stance than a company one. Company policy seems to support a canon on the basis of recent fluff always superceding older versions. Especially since Sabretooth and Black Library aren't second party companies, but subsidary of Games Workshop. When you take into account that the CCG fiction is written by Alan Merrett, the Intellectual Property Manager for Games Workshop, one would have to assume that Sabretooth 'fluff' is 100% sanctioned by Games Workshop. Primarch 00:50, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vulkan

It says Vulkan went missing during the massacre... then at the end says Vulkan was one of those who disagreed with the second founding.

?

All I know is that the Index Astartes says that he was one of the few opposed to the Second Founding. No one really seems to know what happened to him, or where and when. Some say he dissapeared at Istvaan 5, but I've yet to see it for myself. Until we can get some confirmation, I think we should just go with what we know which is in the Index Astartes. Therefore we should remove the info about his disappearing at Istvaan 5. Hellspawn

[edit] The Istvaan Incidents

From Preparations and Allegiances: "The Thousand Sons had never planned to join Horus, but the trap Tzeentch had laid for the Red Sorcerer's legion led them to his side regardless."

Any cannon that the betrayal of the Thousand Sons was set in motion by Tzeentch? I was under the impression that Horus convinced the Space Wolves to destroy Magnus and his legion instead of bringing him back to Terra as the Emperor had commanded.. Aristoi 14:55, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Istvaan/Isstvan?

The Horus Heresy novels and the "Visions of" artbooks all spell the planet's name as "Isstvan", not "Istvaan". Should this be changed in the article, if this is an "official" revision of the name by GW? ANTPogo 01:46, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Who knows? Both the US and UK websites still have "Istvaan", the former link there being to the Galaxy in Flames page. Unless there's an official statement, all we can do is note the discrepancy, anything else being original research. Cheers --Pak21 09:01, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Real World Reason for the Horus Heresy

The Horus Heresy came about, from a purely developmental point of view, from one simple factor: Games Workshop could only afford one mould! To explaine: Jervis Johnson had been working heavily upon a titan-based wargame, set in the 40k background. This would become Adeptus Mechanicus. However, as the project went on, it became clear that Games Workshop could only afford the moulds for one titan miniture. A brainstorming session insured, to figure out how to make a wargame with only one army. The Answer: Civil War. But the 40k background had only just began to take a more solid form, and none of that mentioned any major Civil War, and the writers didn't want to shake up the setting before it was settled. Thus they decided to set it ten thousand years in the past. And thus was born one of the truly original, pivotal and most indicative scenes in the 40k background. Tsanuri 17:20, 12 December 2006 (GMT)

[edit] The Seige

I've read from a few sources (including http://www.epic40k.co.uk/force/titanorders.pdf) that the Fire Wasps Titan Legion were and still are a Loyalist group. I also recall that it was a different Legio who breached the walls - the Legio mentioned in Iron Warriors 40k novel maybe ? Death's Heads/Legio Mortis (http://pages.zoom.co.uk/bogey/Files/HorusHeresay.html) ? Philpill 00:25, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge

I'm removing the merge tag from the main article because this page is a fork (for being too big to include in the History article) according to Wikipedia rules. Shrumster 11:02, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bad Link

The link to Leman Russ in the Horus Heresy box at the bottom of the page leads to the page on the Leman Russ tank. It should lead to the page on the Space Wolves. I'm not certain what needs to be done to fix this. Someone who knows how to should correct this. 21:07, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] In universe tone

This page is so in-universe, it's not funny. It's like a bad rewrite of the original fiction, with hammy and cheesey dramatics (especially during the Seiege of Terra). I'll be looking to bring this into a format that is more fitting for an encyclopedia and would appreciate any help with that effort.Primarch 07:11, 7 April 2007 (UTC)