Talk:Horizons: Empire of Istaria

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For a September 2004 deletion debate over this page see Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Horizons: Empire of Istaria

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Contents 1 Message Board 2 Vandalism 3 Neutral point of view 4 Horizons Wiki 5 Spelling of game name 6 Gamersinfo blurb

[edit] Message Board

This entry doesn't belong in an encyclopedia. It is obviously biased and created by "fan bois" or is corporate insertion. Horizons has in no way radically changed the gaming industry or introduced anything uniquely radical to the genre. The only entry that belongs in the encyclopedia is the term "MMORPG" and perhaps games that had a drastic impact listed with a BRIEF description of what they offered to the industry. A game in itself in no way warrants a unique entry into the encyclopedia. This article is a sales pitch plain and simple. If the creators of Wikpedia have any desire to maintain this project's integrity as an educational tool it will simply remove this article. unsigned comment by User:4.37.96.130

The article doesn't say Horizons "radically changed the gaming industry". The article doesn't say Horizons "introduced anything uniquely radical to the genre". I'm genuinely curious to hear what is "obviously biased" about this article, but the only thing that you or ANY of the anon editors have contributed is vandalism and whining without explanation.

Now, if you honestly believe that only games that had a drastic impact deserve Wikipedia articles, then fair enough, that is a reasonable opinion, and one that is probably shared by a number of editors here, although I think a minority. We'll see what the consensus is on Wikipedia:Votes for deletion. —Stormie 23:27, Sep 1, 2004 (UTC)

Good job on reverting back to Stormey's version, it sounds like a bloody company press release. Palad 20:03, 20 Aug 2004 (EST)

My apologies for stepping into this discussion but I think it will be difficult to achieve a "neutral" article about Horizons, especially when members of a fansite are providing the information about this rather controversial game. My suggestion would be to only keep the first sentence of the current article (i.e. remove all but the first sentence) and instead provide links to the game's website and to the two major fansites at Tazoon and IGN. Make an editorial comment about the fact that both these fansites have commercial ties with the game company (being the "official" fansites for resp. the North-American and the European player community) and thus are moderated to provide a somewhat positive outlook onto the game. After that the Wikipedia article should stay locked for the next few months.

Pardon me for being cynical but any suggestion from an anon IP after being bullied into protecting the page is questionable. Especially when it recommends protecting the page for months. Wikipedia does not normally protect a page against other opinions. Only against revert wars and vandalism. Then only for a cooling period. - Tεxτurε 15:29, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Easy, i do not know how to insert my IP. --62.131.88.12 15:36, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC) (Might it be that these things do not always work correctly when using Netscape?) I usually would not recommend locking an article for so long too but I know both the fans and the people critical to Horizons, and believe me, both are quite used to rabid flamewars.

No, you need to log in, then we can talk properly. btw, wtf is with Fiend? Dunc_Harris|☺ 22:39, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Has the vandalism stopped now? --Marco 07:27, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)

(Old messages that were lost in revert. --Marco 14:34, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC))

that's disgusting, but seriously, I need to make some gramatical changes... Why can't I edit the article??

Please list it in the section for changes once the article gets unlocked. --Marco 14:43, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Can anyone revert this discussion to a previous version before the idiot who deleted the text and put the top link in arrived? No.

Done --Marco 14:34, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I think the funniest thing to me is that every time I've seen the article it's either neutral (or close), or been sabaotaged to be a blatant bash of Horizons. I like the current version. Well laid out, and neutral. IMO the issue here is not with the fans editing it, it's with the anti-fans defacing it at every opportunity. Fans can understand neutrality. Vandals can't. [Additional comments] The link 'The history of Horizons' leads to a highly suspect source of information. How can you people claim a NPOV, then link to a place that is so obviously one-sided? -Theurgist 10:56, 6 Aug 2004 (GMT)

The lock does not endorse a version, it just gets locked to the current version of the page which happened to include that link. This will be added to the change list and if biased it will be removed once the lock clears. --Marco 10:31, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The version recently created by 63.169.96.226 seems very simular to the one that was removed because of !NPOV. Rollback? --Marco 16:49, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Disregard that, this new page rocks --Marco 17:10, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Would adding thier to-do quee be NPOV violation and why? --Marco 12:18, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Adding it like this would probably be fine: "The developers have stated that they are aiming to implement these new features in the future: <then list the to-do queue>". --Kukuman 12:28, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I think your version is better --Marco 12:58, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I like the last edit you did Kukaman. You mentioned lots of financial info, yet you appear to have forgotten to put just about any information about the game? Have you played it yourself? If not I don't feel you are qualified to write anything about Horizons. If you've gone by other reviewers information I've read some writeups that gave me the distinct impression the reviewer spent all of 10 minutes in-game, if that. User: Theurgist 11:56, 5 August 2004 (GMT)

• I have added what I know about the game. I did play it for a short period of time in January. That is why I did not include more information about the game - I either forgot it, or what I already knew is out of date. I am just as "qualified" as you are to edit this article. --Kukuman 11:17, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

• Never mind that I've been playing since December.. lol.. Anyway, The only edits I have done are to fix the link people keep vandalising, and, like the edit I'm doing now is to fix some totally unrelated text some moron has added in User: Theurgist 12:38P, 5 August 2004 (GMT)... Hmm, someone beat me to it

• Playing a short while at Janurari can give a lot of missleading info as the game have improved a lot since then. (Vanaondo, Ice Shard)

I know, that's why I didn't add more about the game :) Feel free to add updated info about the game, but PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE remember that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, NOT a place to advertise or promote your favorite game. When adding information remember to abide by the neutral point of view. --Kukuman 11:58, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Easier said than done, but we'll try. --Marco 12:11, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

To the new users editing this page - Welcome to Wikipedia. I've noticed this article has some serious problems with style and point-of-view. Please familiarize yourselves with Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style before making any more significant edits to this page. --Kukuman 10:40, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Any chance of banning the clown @ 24.96.124.234? --Marco 09:53, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I don't know seems more like a misguided newbie to wikipedia his last edit and i quote:

"Horizons is a MMORPG which OH WHO CARES

You people are freaking desperate if you're trying to advertise your game on Wikipedia.

Have a fabulous day!

Love,

Biffa Bacon" so it seems as if he/she sees it as an advert and is removing it and leaving this message behind, i left a message on his/her talk page explaining that comments belong here and if he/she thinks its an advert to register then post it on vfd or leave a message on my talk page and i'll list it of vfd for him/her if him/her does not wish to register an account. lets wait and see if more vandalism occurs first.--Ryan B. (Talk, contributions) 19:27, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Previus work is: Inserting irrelevant text, like the text about platypus, and changing links to point to other pages. Now that this has been processed, can you please move the vandalism entry to the appropriate place as I don't know where that is yet. --Marco 19:48, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Negative. this information is being updated by fans at http://www.tazoon.com/releaseforums/tm.asp?m=374598. User: theurgist 10:51, 5 Aug 2004 (GMT)

Is this a corporate insertion? Wetman 09:27, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The text for December 16, 2004 should probably be changed, it says yesterday in the text, so it would make more sense if it was for Dec 15th. I don't think I should edit it myself. FatHed 04:11, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

I like it that there are 3 entries of vandalism today, all of which points to this article (see sarcasm). Grow up please! When we started the article was a stub and we intended to make a good description of it and highlight some of it's features. On our first try we went a bit overboard but that does not make it fine for others to go overboard in the opposite direction. Articles should have a nuetral point of view, which we try to have. If there is anything that does not conform to that please feel free to correct it without biasing it in the opposite direction. Do not add FUD as that will be edited out right away. If we disagree on something please bring it up here prior to turning it into an editwar.

That is, you change it once, and if it is not biased we leave it. If it is biased we change it back, if you still disagree move the discussion here so that we can resolve it in a matter that is not the side that reverts the most wins. --Marco 19:22, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

To the members of Tazoon.com editing this article: I realize you guys like this game but I have to remind you again to keep a neutral point of view. I have to say I'm not impressed with the newest version of this article. It reads more like a commercial than an actual encyclopedia article. Remember that Wikipedia is not a place to advertise your favorite game. --Kukuman 22:48, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

We (at least the faction I belong to) try give it an accurate description, but it's hard to do any progress if we need to spend all our time removing jibberish. While we may need some help on this, inserting random crap is not making it better, correcting, rewording and removing faulty lines does. --Marco 07:02, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Forgot to mention, lots of gratitude for trying to improve the article rather than destroying it. --Marco 07:22, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Thank you for the protect Angela. I say we protect this for about 24 hours until the wave of idiots calms down and the intelligent dedicated new editors get settled in. --Kukuman 00:40, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

^------ --Marco 07:02, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Neutral point of view

We are having some difficulties about keeping a neutral point of view it would seem. So please help us. If you spot something biased, correct it, remove it or mark it with the starting tag [BIAS] and ending tag [/BIAS]. --Marco 07:19, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I followed your suggestion and added [BIAS] and {/BIAS] tags to the article. --62.131.88.12 21:59, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I removed it, please use {{npov}} for this, which expands to:

Thanks. 24.123.221.2 21:59, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I removed the tag so the article won't show up in the NPOV disputes category. -- Kjkolb 07:57, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, but after getting a private message from what looks to be a moderator (User: Frazzydee) accusing me of vandalism and threatening to block my IP address I will no longer contribute to this discussion. Please continue advertising the game as much as you can for whatever reason you guys might have. ;) And my apologies, I didn't know that having an opinion is considered vandalism around here. Over and out. --62.131.88.12 04:21, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Marco suggested that if you spotted something biased, that you "correct it, remove it or mark it with the starting tag [BIAS] and ending tag [/BIAS]". It's hard to see how wrapping the entire article in a pair of "[BIAS]"/"[/BIAS]" tags is to be interpreted as anything other than mischief. Or do you maintain that it is biased for us to claim that "Horizons: Empire of Istaria is a massively multiplayer online role-playing game" and that "http://www.istaria.com/" is the website? —Stormie 05:17, Aug 27, 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Horizons Wiki

Horizons Wiki

[edit] Spelling of game name

According to the game's website, the title of the game is Horizons: Empire of Istaria, not Horizons: Empires of Istaria. Should the page be renamed? -- Andrew Maiman 17:56, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Please do if possible, I have no clue on how to do it. --Marco 17:57, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)

When the page is unprotected drop me a message and I'll create a new page, migrate the content/discussions and then delete the old page. I'll watch the page and come back and unprotect it in a day or so, unless you want it done sooner. Manning 19:40, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I've moved it. Information on how to properly move a page is at m:Help:Renaming (moving) a page. Guanaco 23:02, Aug 8, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks. I knew how to move it, but couldn't since it was locked. The name of the game needs to be changed in the first paragraph, as well, but the article is still locked. Andrew Maiman 23:41, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Gamersinfo blurb

The part "where the game is at" that was at the end of the Gamersinfo URL sounds like a plug or it's advertising. As such, it was removed. Peter1968 11:55, 23 July 2006 (UTC)