Talk:Homosexuality and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints

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[edit] Article Creation

All over Wikipedia there are many different sections talking about this topic in relation to the LDS church and they are all starting to say different things and getting stuck becoming non-NPOV. The purpose of this article is to provide a UNIFORM, NPOV and REFERENCED article showcasing this relationship.

Please NO OPINIONS. EVERYTHING CURRENTLY IN THIS ARTICLE IS REFERENCED. I know this is a polarized topic, thats why I say that, but please add more! But only do so using information in the current references or adding your own references with additional information. Trust me, I'm no expert on the LDS church or on homosexuality. I'm almost tempted to throw up a "Expert needed" header...

Regarding something specific - I've noticed a lot of articles have said 'homosexuality' or 'homosexual tendencies' are classified as a sin. This doesn't jive with what the LDS church president says and accounts given by gay members. They specify the behaviour is sinful...

Anyway, let me know your thoughts on the article and refed additions would be appreciated! Chupper 18:24, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

A few thoughts:

• Inline citations would be very nice.
• The three paragraph quote in the Church's official views on homosexuality section is rather long, is it beyond the length that can be considered fair use? Even if it is, it still seems like we should just write it in our own words.
• "Although no groups or organizations have been created that are affiliated with The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, many have spawned all over the world."

This needs to be reworded, it currently reads like it contradicts itself: no groups have been created, but many have been created. I'm aware that it is trying to say none have been created that are associated with the church, but it sounds weird to me.

• "In recent years numerous individuals have come forward alleging they agreed to undergo aversion therapy at Brigham Young University"

How many is numerous, and who are these people? See Wikipedia:Avoid weasel words. --Lethargy 04:25, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Lethargy, thanks so much for the comments! I'm really not an expert on this topic - I had to do a lot of research to figure this stuff out. Maybe we can find someone better than me to manage this article... In response to your requests/thoughts:

• Inline citations ADDED.
• I agree it's long, but not too long, imo, considering the topic of the article. I worry if we reword it in our own words, it will become a source of contention and possible non-NPOV as everyone will add in their own tidbits. I thought this was straight from the horses mouth, and like I said, considering this article documents official LDS policy, it might not be that long. I don't know though, I may definitely be wrong. If someone rewords it, I won't have a problem as long as they stay as accurate and NPOV as possible.
• Yea, I agree, a bad wording. I've reworded more simply. Hope its ok.
• Hopefully the inline cites straighten this out. There were 3. Changed 'numerous' to 'several.' (I hope thats not weasel-like) :)

Thanks for the thoughts and I look forward to more referenced additions/modifications! Chupper 05:40, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Too Many Quotes

When this article was originally written, Lethargy expressed concern on the number of quotes we are using. He said:

"The three paragraph quote in the Church's official views on homosexuality section is rather long, is it beyond the length that can be considered fair use? Even if it is, it still seems like we should just write it in our own words."

At the time I had put in three lengthy quotes that I thought were OK (but I was open to them being rewritten on Wikipedia). However I now feel like they should be rewritten in our own words along with the two additional quotes added. Now, I know it is not easy to rewrite these while keeping a NPOV, but I feel like we are pushing the limits of fair use and including too many quotes from an academic perspective. These next couple of days I will be rewriting these quotes. Any help would most definitely be appreciated. Chupper 04:44, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] McBride Dissertation

I added references to McBride's work corroborating aversion therapy at BYU.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.225.80.213 (talk) 12:24, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the reference. Can you tell me where you found this dissertation? I've searched extensively and found nothing. Is something available at BYU onsite?

I've found references to this dissertation, but nothing on the dissertation itself. Chupper 16:30, 24 March 2007 (UTC)