Talk:Holy Grail

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have new messages (last change).

Contents

[edit] Alternative Interpretations

So alternative interpretations of the grail like that in Dan Brown's - The Davinci Code are what?

A mixture of half-truths, willful distortions, and outright lies, mixed together into a ludicrous conspiracy theory that very few historians and mythologists take seriously: that's what such "alternative interpretations" are. The Da Vinci Code is fiction, and the foolishness that inspired it -- such wonderful works of "history" as Holy Blood, Holy Grail and The Templar Revelation -- deserve to be labeled as such. See Priory of Sion.
Not that the article shouldn't mention those alternative interpretations, and I'll write the section myself if I can get through the aforementioned nonsense without flinging the books across the room in disgust, but it should make clear that such interpretations rely on poor research, questionable evidence, and a methodology that is more reminiscent of conspiracy theory than serious academic work. --Mirv 15:31, 17 Nov 2003 (UTC)
While those alternative interpretations are being mentioned, don't leave out the legend that Mary Magdalene invented the Magdalena and that "some scholars" feel that she is the patron saint of spanking because of the ancient manuscript found in the Holy Land "Paddlin' Magdalene Home." We can all make this stuff up...
Actually Macarena is the name of an advocation of Mary, mother of Jesus popular in Seville. So yes, there is a relation of Macarena to the Grail. -- Error 00:35, 29 Mar 2004 (UTC)
[[Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade]] would be a better source to cite than The DaVinci Code. After all, Henry Jones Sr. pursued grail lore as a hobby...more like an obsession! Papers please! Just a thought. Sdr 03:55, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Grail theories

Many new legends have arisen over the centuries or during the modern revival of interest in the Grail that will describe it as either an emerald that fell from Lucifer's crown when he was thrown out of Heaven; the Philosopher's Stone; the Ark of the Covenant; a book of Jesus' geneology; the silver dish supporting John the Baptist's head; the sword used to cut off John the Baptist's head; the lance belonging to Longinus, the Roman soldier who transfixed Jesus' chest; a secret gospel written by Jesus; the cup used by Mary of Bethany to perfume Jesus' feet; the container of the Shroud of Turin; a round ball of glass filled with water held in a tree-like stand — the Thummim and the Urim; Aladdin's lamp, the Golden Fleece; or the Baphomet. One of the most popular theories claims that the Grail refers to both Mary Magdalene and a royal bloodline stemming from her marriage to Jesus.

This is ignorant tripe invented by adolescents who think "hey, it's mythology" and you can just make up anything. This is an abuse of Wikipedia's tolerance of "alternative" theories. None of these "theories" have ever been connected with the Grail myth in anything more than a comic book. Wetman 20:54, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)

The Mary Magdalene stuff is becoming au courant theory, at least in fiction. RickK | Talk 20:57, 28 Mar 2004 (UTC)

What? Connected with the OriGraro? Only in the anime "Meri Magareno"!

Not at all. See "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" and "The Da Vinci Code". RickK | Talk 01:43, 30 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Wetman, the 'Grail Theories' text was an unfinished summarization of the following material from an external reference:

Other stories will describe the Grail as a large emerald that fell from Lucifer's crown when he was thrown out of Heaven; the Philosophers' Stone; the Ark of Covenant; a book of Jesus' geneology, written by Jesus;2 The chalice used to collect Jesus' blood; the silver dish supporting John the Baptist's head; the sword used to cut off John the Baptist's head; the lance belonging to Longinus, the Roman soldier who transfixed Jesus' chest; or a secret Gospel written by Jesus. According to Graham Phillips, the Grail is the cup used by Mary of Magdala to perfume Jesus' feet. Daniel C. Scavone suggests that the Grail is the Shroud of Turin. Baima Bollone writes that the Grail is the container of the Holy Shroud. Flavia Anderson, in The Ancient Secret claims that the Grail is a round ball of glass filled with water held in a tree-like stand — the Thummim and the Urim. Suggestions that the Grail was Alladin's lamp, the Golden Fleece or the Baphomet have also been made. For further information view: What is a Grail? by Dr. Linda Malcor, The History Net, "An Introduction to Current Theories about The Holy Grail" Chris Thornborrow. One of the oddest, but most popular, theories claims that the word Grail refers to a royal bloodline and that Jesus' descendents, through various secret societies, continue to manipulate global affairs.

Regarding those two sources: the first one is decent, but the second one is problematic. This is a subject which, for hundreds of years, has spawned reams and reams of shoddy scholarship, halfwitted vaporings, and complete nonsense (often all three at once), so it might be best not to rely too heavily on a poorly-referenced list compiled by some random person with no apparent qualifications. (Not that all the stuff on that page is worthless; at least one of those theories is well-known, and some of the others are at least attributed to one source or another; but caution and intellectual rigor are necessary.) —67.71.79.111 17:22, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)

My remarks were far from cautious, once again. Even tripe has sources though. A poem by someone. A drawing that was engraved and widely seen. Something. Wetman 19:49, 4 Apr 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Off Point

All the discussion on this page and the main article is off point and having nothing to do with the Holy Grail / Grail - which is understood and known by those who seek it. It is NOT the blood line of Jesus; nor any cup , chalice of any vessel having anything to do with the last supper.

So all the discussion herein is pointless and off point.

Is there no writer with any understanding all all ?

Esp clear is the wiki administrators policing , editing , massaging these articles have no understanding of any of it, etc. /s/ Willy Maximus Sr - GM PS & AO

I take it you mean the grail is purely symbolic? I know that C.G. Jung considered it an archetype and interpreted symbolically, rather than literally. Perhaps this view should be mentioned as an alternate interpretation. Would it fit under the "Modern Interpretations" section? 24.18.35.120 05:16, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
How about this alternative interpretation, which I came accross by accident when thinking about "the usual" problem of "how humanity can become more social," the essential problem of any religion, certainly problem Jesus would identify with (guess). When thinking about power hierarchy (such as the Roman Empire, etc etc), you can not avoid the shape of a pyramid. The pyramid is the natural shape of power hierarchy, which is even worse when the tip is lifted above it with an all-seeing eye. The pyramid was also a symbol of Egyptian Theocracy, standing to this day. A "flat" organization refers to a "flattened" pyramid. The pyramid capstone and the pyramid stones at ground level, are good representations of the role of people at the "top" and "bottom" (etc etc). Because of this usual symbolism (existing before the year 0, since the pyramids pre-date Jesus many centuries), it makes perfect sense to make "an inverted pyramid" the symbol for democracy. Here the leaders are suddenly on "bottom", the `people' (many) decide things. Now when thinking about these things in symbolic form, you can take the tip off the inverted triangle again, symbolizing the gap between rulers in todays society and the people. But this "leadership triangle" is not a democracy, it is based on power hierarchy, hence needs to be inverted ... When I had hung this on the wall to think about it, it suddenly seemed to look an awful lot like a cup. So I thought: maybe this is the "holy grail" the Christians search for ? In this interpretation, the entire search for the "holy grail" has resulted from a misunderstanding by "the people", who didn't realize these symbolisms were being used to talk in symbolic language about the socialization of these same people. One could take this view a little further: religious folk take part in praying and rituals, in order to "socialize" themselves, and prove their loyalty (as in non-violance) to eachother. It has nothing to do with Gods, that is just props, something to hang the rituals and "good thoughts" unto. This suggests that they are busy with "socialization", and the Messiah they are waiting for, is themselves once they are finally developed enough to act out good deeds and be free of violence. Until that day, they submit themselves to a depowering club. The violence being inherited from our animal past, the "inherited sin". I'm not searching for any "holy grail" mind you, I don't care at all. It just struck me that it looked like a drinking cup. The symbolism of inverted triangle with inverted-again tip stands perfectly on its own, it needs no Christian input. This theory can be expanded all manner of ways ... "the holy grail flies", "the holy grail is spiritual", "it might be somewhere on Earth", etc etc. Doubtful anyone will want to go along with this theory, since it kind of wreaks the whole "treasure search" `fun.' But with all the "Da Vinci" code stuff, I thought it is only fair to give some very different answer for a change. I agree with the original comment (invitation): it has nothing to do with "blood" or "supper", or whatever like that. You can find the holy grail in your heart if you pray hard and true enough, and you get a messiah for free... how about that ! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.127.226.153 (talk) 20:03, 4 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] The Grail in the Mabinogion

The date of Grail sequences in the Welsh folktales, the Mabinogion are older than the surviving manuscripts (13th century).

I'm pretty familiar with the Mabinogion and I can't remember a single reference to the Grail in the Three Romances or in "Culwch ac Olwen." Certainly, characters typically associated with the Grail appear in several tales, but that's rather stretching the connection. I also imagine that the Cauldron of Rebirth that Bendigeidfran gives to Matholwch in "Branwen Ferch LLŷr" is related to the Grail legend, but I would consider this more a matter of two tales drawing on the same tradition than the Grail actually making an appearance in "Branwen." Am I missing something major, or are there in fact no Grail sequences in the Mabinogion? I wanted to be sure before editing the page.

--Paulbee 04:22, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Peredur fab Evrawg has parallels with Chretien's Perceval, such as a procession of mysterious or sacred objects, including the bleeding spear: however, where Chretien has a graal, the Peredur has a tray holding a man's head swimming in blood. If the Welsh tales are the original source, then the Grail would seem to be something weirder and nastier than usually thought. (Also note the apparent obsession of the Perlesvaus/High History of the Holy Graal with severed heads.) --Franey 11:30, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Multiplying Grails

An anonymous editor has inserted this: Still other stories claim that the Grail was moved variously to either Nova Scotia, or to Accokeek, Maryland by a priest aboard Captain John Smith's ship. Is this comedy, or what? Is the Holy Grail masquerading as a Dixie Cup in Moscow, Idaho then? I hesitate to revert this simply for underestimating popular ullibility... Wetman 00:57, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Valencia Santo Cáliz

The main article says There are cups claimed to be the Grail in several churches, for instance the Valencia cathedral. . Name other. Catholic burocrats are very good about contradictions, specially after the criticism of Luther.

The Valencia Vessel is reported as the "Santo Grial" in Spanish. It is documented since 1300 AC in the archives of the Crown of Aragon, and also exists a document circa 1100 which is suppossedly a forgery but it also names the Chalice. According the records it has been stored in Siresa, Jaca, Zaragoza, Barcelona, and finally Valencia. Note the phonetic appeal of the first storage site, the town of Siresa. Note also that the French arturic cycle was composed about the same age, so it is very feasible that the author of the Grail Cycle were inspired by the contemporary existence of this cup.

Of course, no documentation exists about this Grail before the XIIth century. Popular leyend relates it to St Lorenzo, who was native of the nearby city of Huesca. In this legend, and due to the prosecution in Roma, this saint had send some valuable possesions to his own family in the north of spain. Arivero 11:38, 22 May 2006 (UTC)


Is the vessel called the Santo Cáliz a purported Holy Grail? I thought it was a purported Holy Chalice. That is what the Holy Chalice article says, as well as other sources [1]. -Willmcw 22:43, 30 Dec 2004 (UTC)

In the Corpus Christi procession at Valencia," The float of honor is the Roca del Santo Grial, with a larger-than-life reproduction of the Holy Chalice of Valencia, maintained by tradition to be the very cup used by Jesus to institute the Eucharist." (source: http://www.archden.org/dcr/archive/20020424/2002042416ln.htm) Some Wikipedian has a project to disentangle the Chalice of the Last Supper from the Grail legend of the chalice at the Crucifixion. As many quotes such as the one above could demonstrate, disentangling the two is not easy, even with an urgent agenda. --Wetman 01:49, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)


What are we tryimg to say about the Holy Chalice? That it is often mistaken for the Grail? That they may be the same thing? User:Wetman, I don't understand your edit. Can you explain? Cheers - Willmcw 00:40, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC) Explained above. Are you the one trying to disentangle the two legends? --Wetman 01:49, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I certainly don't have an urgent agenda. Do you? I think that there are two separate relics being discussed. It may be worth pointing out that they can be mixed up, or that some people think they are the same thing, but that doesn't mean that they don't have separate existences. If there is confusion then a good task for an encyclopedia is to note that confusion and try to rectify it. What's the problem with that approach? And I'm really confused when you write that Christian revisionists insist they are different. Are there any who insist that they are the same thing? Who are these revisionists? -Willmcw 05:52, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)
The point of artfully disentangling what are patently inextricably connected legends, as so clearly demonstrated at Valencia, is a prelude to arguing that, though one may be a legend, the other is "authentic". I'm glad to hear that no such agenda is involved, for the medieval poetry certainly conflates the grail from the supper and the chalice from the crucifixion, or is it the other way round, right from the start. As every reader knows. --Wetman 10:27, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I have removed The vessel of the Last Supper, a smallish cup made of marble is not lost, in fact it is still identified with several venerated relics, especially at the Spanish Cathedral of Valencia. since it includes statements which belong at Holy Chalice. "Is not lost" is a strange phrase in this case. --Henrygb 00:44, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Loomis' research

This article is unsatisfactory because while it mentions R.S. Loomis' work (whom I have been led to believe was the authority on the origin & growth of the Grail myth) in the Bibliography, it makes little use of his research. He provides numerous examples of themes from this story as having appeared in Celtic stories -- the platter that Bran the Blessed serves from in the Mabinogion, the cup in the 11th century Irish Prophetic Ecstasy of the Phantom (Baile in Scail) which forms the center of this story, & the similar Adventures of Art Son of Conn.

And there is no mention of Jessie Weston's work (e.g. From Ritual to Romance), which while refuted by Loomis still has its followers. And I know of no authority who would insist this tale has a Gothic origin.

I have fixed its earliest mention, where it is not a Christian relic, but an arguably magical, or perhaps even pagan, object. -- llywrch 21:00, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, that's partly my fault. I came to this page as-is and wanted to include a more scholarly interpretaton based on Loomis' work. However, I haven't gotten around to doing it yet--so all that's included is a reference to it. DonQuixote 22:16, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Surely adding a reference to a standard work is always a good idea, even if you can't get hold of a copy at the moment. I've often been guilty. Wikipedia is still a work in progress. --Wetman 23:13, 9 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Excuse my harshness, then. I'll see if I can't rewrite the introduction to fit Loomis' ideas into the article; I have 2 of his essays which set forth his thesis. But some note of this defeciency is needed, in order to alert the reader that there is a problem here, & to treat the material accordingly. -- llywrch 19:53, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)
Wikipedia reintroduces the lost secret of elite education:
CAVEAT LECTOR
--Wetman 21:40, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)
I added "Origins of the Grail". I tried to keep it as simple as possible, leaving out a lot of extra information such as the possible origins of the Fisher King, possible meanings of the relics, the migration of the tale from Britain to Brittany, etc. DonQuixote 22:32, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The best book I've read on the subject is "The Holy Grail: Imagination and Belief" (by Richard Barber) ([2]). Maybe one of the editors of this article would like to get it out from the library to help with the article? porges 23:05, Apr 11, 2005 (UTC) (There's a short review by the Guardian: [3])


I changed a few things in the "Fate of the Grail" section, mostly to correct slightly wrong information and to make it more clear. I took out the line about Wolfram's Parzifal being one of the earliest books about the grail, because there were quite a few between Chretien and it. I also reworded the second paragraph to make it sound less like the Grail is a real object waiting to be found. And I said the stories about the grail being in Maryland and Nova Scotia were local folklore. I would assume they are, if they are not then a source should be added as I've never heard this anywhere.


Chretien needs to be discussed much earlier in the article, as it is because of him that the Grail became as popular as it did. I'll add it when I have time if everyone's okay with this.--Cuchullain 17:26, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Added a section on Chretien.--Cuchullain 19:37, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

Well written. In fact, I think it deserves its own section. Also, there should probably be a bit about the Breton conteurs from whom Chretien (directly or indirectly) drew his material (probably under The Grail and Arthurian Legend or a short section before Chretien's section but within Beginnings of the Grail in Literature). DonQuixote 02:32, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Actually, because of this new bit, The Grail Canon section should probably be tidied up a bit. DonQuixote 02:38, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Since Barber disputes the Celtic pre-origins, the Early forms of the Grail section needs to be sourced, and brought to NPOV. Charles Matthews 10:41, 18 May 2005 (UTC)
Just a helpful reminder, he mean Richard W. Barber and his book The Holy Grail: Imagination and Belief (2004) which is mentioned above (porges 23:05, Apr 11, 2005). Now that you've mentioned Barber's criticism of the Celtic origin, I'm obliged to get a copy of his book. DonQuixote 15:57, 18 May 2005 (UTC)


I think the new section Beginnings of the Grail in Literature should come before the Origins of the Grail. It might make it easier to include info on the origin of the legend in context (for example Loomis and Barber's research)--Cuchullain 21:18, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

I removed this link:

  • Free Video - Interview with Mark Amaru Pinkham, renown author and authority on the Knights Templar and Holy Grail Discusses the mysteries of the Holy Grail, his connection and friendship with the Sinclair Clan, the energy of Roslyn Chapel and why it was built, and the perfection of the Sacred Geometry in the construction of this chapel. He talks about the origin of the lineage of the Johanites and rites of this ancient lineage, where the Templars went, and where 5 cases of treasure is believed to be. He talks about the Knights Templars and Mystery Schools as well as the mission of the Knights Templar.

If someone really wants to keep it, they should at least change the description so it sounds less like an advertisement.--Cuchullain 22:27, May 22, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Why link to a computer game?

Why should the ending of this sentence in the first paragraph

A theme joined to the Christianised Arthurian mythos relates to the quest for the Holy Grail.

link to the computer game Conquests of Camelot? Does it have any relevance in broadening the definition of Holy Grail? I suppose omitting the link at all and reword the sentence. The c. game could be mentioned in the "See also" section, if at all. Anyone share the same opinion? Or is there something in it I'm missing?

Oneliner 23:07, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

You're right, I took it out.--Cuchullain 23:36, May 26, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Moved for cleanup

The following interpretive mix of uncited gospel, secondhand medieval legend, etc, is moved here. Any source for this elaboration? Is there anything else here that is not already more logically discussed in the present article?:

"During the Last Supper Jesus took the bread, he broke it and he said: take and eat, this is my body; then he took the goblet and said: drink all, because this is my blood of the alliance poured for all in remission of the sins. The day after, Friday of Passion, Jesus was crucified. When he was taken from the cross, one of its disciples, Joseph of Arimathea, wrapped him in a sheet and carried him in the family grave. While the body of Jesus was washed and prepared for being buried, some blood drops of, excited from his wounds; Joseph collected it in the same goblet that was served for the consacration of the Last Supper. Joseph left Palestine and brought to Britain the Holy Graal, here it remained for 5 centuries, entrusted the clergymen of the church Aquae Sulis. In the VI century because of the threat of pagan armies they wanted to carry it in a surer place. Therefore a clergyman charge to carry it to Rome to the Pope. But when he arrived to the Comacina Island, because of the Longobards invasion, he was forced to stop. To the Holy Graal was given the merit of the succeeded resistance against the Longobards and it was build one church (on the island) in its honor. With the victory of the Longobards on trying to carry the Holy Graal in safe, hiding it in a lost place in Val Codera, from where its traces have gone lost."

It surprises me that there happened to be a church already waiting in Britain for Joseph seeing as he would have been the first Christian to step foot on British soil.--RandallFlagg 13:04, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Glastonbury connection

Robert de Boron tied Joseph of Arimathea to the Grail; the Glastonbury connection is conjecture. They were notorious forgers, but there isn't any definite evidence they ever said anything about the Holy Grail. Loomis devotes a chapter to this in The Grail.Wetman, you may be thinking of their material on Joseph as the first Christian bishop at Glastonbury, which doesn't belong here. Also, I'm curious as to what you think my agenda is.--Cuchullain 02:39, 15 November 2005 (UTC)

Assuming there are no further objections, I have moved the Joseph of Arimathea line back to the first paragraph.--Cuchullain 22:21, 21 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] chalice or grail?

The text begins by defining the thing as a vessel from the last supper, and two paragraphs later, it says it may be identified with the chalice, which is defined (in its own page) as the vessel from the supper. So which one is the blood vessel, and which the wine vessel?Ladypine 15:16, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Er... being grown as catolic, this is new to me. Christ claims that the wine vessel is the blood vessel: Drink, this wine is my blood, and this one is the chalice and the grail. Of course it could exist a vessel during the cruxifixion. In fact there was some tools to clean Crist's body and to prepare it during the burial, but it is unrelated to the Holy Grail; it could be discussed perhaps related to the Turin Sindone. Arivero 11:42, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Most commonly it is identified with the Holy Chalice, but sometimes it's the dish Jesus ate from during the Last Supper, and sometimes it's something else. It depends on which version of the story you read. Is that what you're asking?--Cuchullain 19:46, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
No. I refer to the way the Holy Chalice page begins, vs. the way the Holy Grail page begins. The contradict. From The holy grail: In Christian mythology, the Holy Grail was the dish, plate, cup or vessel used by Jesus at the Last Supper, said to possess miraculous powers.. From the holy chalice: In Christian mythology the Holy Chalice is the vessel which Jesus used at the Last Supper to serve the wine. I understtod that there is a supper vessel and a blood vessel, and they are often the same. My question is which is the correct terminology for which? Thanks, Ladypine 10:37, 17 December 2005 (UTC)
Well, the Holy Chalice is always a cup, specifically the one used by Jesus to pour the wine at the Last Supper. Some stories have the Grail as a vessel used to catch Jesus' blood while he's on the cross; in those stories it can also be the Holy Chalice, or something else.--Cuchullain 03:04, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Speaking of this, I want to move the "Four medieval relics" section to Holy Chalice, or at least shorten it substantially. It's more about that anyway, and adds a lot of unneccessary length to the article.--Cuchullain 22:01, 28 December 2005 (UTC)

As there hasn't been any objections to this in over a month, I went ahead and moved it.--Cuchullain | talk 06:17, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

RE: The removal of the Arms of Sir Robert Bell, from the 16th century; Crest depicting the Holy Grail. Dear (Bill) Cuchullain. The image that you have removed is period art, simular in many respects to the other illustrations that portray the Holy Grail, that are incorporated into the article. Perhaps you are an Art History major in college, so I would encourage you to consult the Victoria and Albert museum, London, for the many references that you have requested, and to discover further details concerning stained glass, and further to learn more about the other examples of this period Art Collection, of which from what I understand is currently on display, however with the original panels of glass in brilliant colour. You may also wish to consult the college of arms, London, to enquire details concerning references to the art and science of heraldry. I hope this is of some help. Wales. (Richard)

The other images are of the Grail, yours just shows what is apparantly a chalice. If it really is a picture of the Holy Grail, you need to provide a source indicating this, otherwise the image has no place in this particular article.--Cúchullain t/c 19:58, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

Again, this matter falls within the context of Art. I note that one of the images that appears in the article could be interpreted metaphorically as a chalice of light, or a Grail, as Pollard observes: "Arthur Rackham - "How at the Castle of Corbin a Maiden Bare in the Sangreal and Foretold the Achievements of Galahad", from The Romance of King Arthur and His Knights of the Round Table, by Alfred W Pollard, 1917.jpg"

The Achievement of this particular heraldic example depicts the Holy Grail, and is from 1577, (16th century). This substantially predates the other images that appear in the article, so perhapas the artist from one period had a different picture in mind. Please consult the references that I have already afforded you above, or you may wish to consult the following sample of links: http://www2.sas.ac.uk/warburg/Mnemosyne/Image/aesthetics.htm http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=514 http://columbia.thefreedictionary.com/Early+Christian+art+and+architecture I hope this has contributed some help. Wales 03:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New article: List of alternate interperations?

It seems that there are quite a few alternate interpretations out there. Are there enough to warrant a new article, "Holy Grail: List of alternate interpretations" ?

A few that come to mind are the Gnostic interpretation & related Alchemical/Hermetic interpretation, the Jungian interpretation, or the recently put-forth interpretation by the documentary "The Pharmacratic Inquisition" that it is the Amanita Muscaria mushroom.

24.18.35.120 05:19, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removed silly phrase

Removed Dan Brown rocks my world from article.

Yes, thank you.--Cúchullain t/c 20:01, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] "Beyond the da Vinci Code

Chris k 01:02, 28 November 2006 (UTC) This section of the article seems to be headed increasingly off-topic and should probably be assigned to a separate article.

As it was just some sort of unsourced original research or opinion, I've just simply removed it. Kuru talk 02:47, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
Even better.Chris k 03:22, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
I concur. Good work.--Cúchullain t/c 09:19, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Coat of arms

I just noticed the coat of arms for Sir Robert Bell is tagged as "fair use", which means it can be used on the article for the person, but not here. I've never thought it was a clear depiction of the Grail anyway.--Cúchullain t/c 02:31, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sangreal

The Cosmic Grail will recur on May 21, 2012! - http://marmarcelcel.de/www.marmarcelcel.de/sangreal_1.html - Mar Cel

[edit] THE GRAIL IS MARY MAGDALENE AND THE HOLY BAB SARA/ST.SARA SOPHIA CHRIST

Mary was with child and by Jesus at his death and his child Sara Christ later to be known as Saint Sara of Egypt grows up in the poor getos of egypt later forced into working as a slave as a teenager to feed her sick mother how will be dead in the morning...later she is taken by the local Church and grows up to be a wise woman and saint in Egypt later she died of what is known as Brest Kancer today and that is where it ends but after her death some said she would return like her father but to bring hell to ruens and bring rebith to the earth after the end of days and she would bring new hope to humanity, some said she will Restore the Lord's Children to Eden and punish the wicked souls to purgatory.

I may have given offence by removing this to the talk page, but could it wikified or encyclopedia-ised somehow?? I'm not entirely sure what the author is trying to say. Lou 04:36, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
It's worthless nonsense, and it's good you removed it.--Cúchullain t/c 05:49, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Suggest Protection

May I suggest something? Given how most of the recent edits has been nothing but nonsense and vandalism and reverts, I suggest that someone requests an admin to protect the article from unregistered and new users for a while. crazyviolinist 02:33, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Vague accusations aren't helpful. What exactly is nonsense and vandalism?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 172.150.205.93 (talk • contribs).

If you look at the page history, there has been a lot of vandalism recently, ie adding unhelpful material to purposefully damage the article.--Cúchullain t/c 21:20, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Evola

172.xxx, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but your additions of material on Julius Evola are not sourced. You need to provide cites to the books he makes those claims in (see WP:CITE). I turned your external link to the GNOSIS article into a real citation, but this is only good for the claim that Evola influenced the Priory hoax, not for his broader claims. If you don't provide sources, I'll be removing the material again after a few days.--Cúchullain t/c 21:17, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Additionally, if anyone thinks the Evola info (or any of the other info) should be removed on the grounds that it isn't notable, you have my support.--Cúchullain t/c 21:17, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Thank you for the seeming goodwill. Whether we like it or not, Evola is important in the history of ideas and his popularity among certain esoteric and conservative circles in the Western world is increasingly rising. I shall provide the exact references shortly.

I'll give you that. Thanks for adding the citations, it looks workable now. Cheers, Cúchullain t/c 03:52, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../h/o/l/Talk%7EHoly_Grail_9b9c.html"