Talk:Holland "Dutch" Wagenbach

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I took a look at "What links here", it seems to be a The Shield fictional character. — TheKMan^talk 18:39, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

And it appears that it will be agressively edited to be as badly written as what links here. Hpuppet - «Talk» 19:15, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Misunderstanding of NOR, POV, and encyclopedic tone

1. Description of fictional characters and their personality based on canonical sources (Shield episodes) is NOT original research. 2. NPOV applies to content and value judgments, not tone. A work of fiction is not bound by NPOV and in describing a work of fiction in an encyclopedia article, any non-neutral points of view present in the story MUST also be included in the article. 3. TV show characters are not Shakespeare characters. The lack of in-depth literary analysis does not imply a lack of encyclopedic tone, and any such facetiousness WOULD violate NOR.

I'm removing the tag as it is completely unwarranted. If there is any fault with the article, it would be a fancrufty lack of brevity. If you feel there is superfluous information on the page, don't post tags, remove it (and justify your removal on the Talk page). Make the article better, and put the tag stick away. Unigolyn 21:42, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Bad tone:

Here are some examples of non-encyclopedic tone:

1. The entire article is about the history of the character in the show. This is not encyclopedic content. 2. "Holland "Dutch" Wagenbach is a socially inept but extremely successful police detective assigned to the Farmington District of Los Angeles." - Fails NPOV and NOR. 3. "Dutch's wife was an alcohalic and after forcing her into rehab, his wife promptly began a sexual affair with her AA sponsor, becoming pregnant by him, and leaving Dutch for her new lover." In addition to needing copyediting for spelling, this sentence is at best confusing. 4. "Dutch in not well liked around the Barn." - fails NOR. 5. "Many of his fellow officers consider Dutch to be an over-educated nerd who thinks he is better than the rest of the officers at the Barn." - needs copyedit, fails NOR.

That's just ridiculous. When discussing a fictional character, it is most assuredly not POV to describe their character traits. Wagenbach IS a socially inept but successful detective. It is not "original reserach" to describe fundamental traits of fictional characters, such as calling Mackey corrupt and violent or calling Julien gay and religious. A sentence like "Fictional Character X is thought by many to be B and C" is not encyclopedic language, it's a misunderstanding of what encyclopedic language is. From the article on Moby-Dick: "The tyranical captain of the Pequod who is driven by a monomanicial desire to kill Moby Dick, the whale to whom he lost his leg." This is encyclopedic language. "Captain Ahab, thought by many to be the tyranical captain of the Pequod, was believed by some to be driven byh a monomaniacal desire to kill the whale supposedly called Moby Dick." This is NOT encyclopedic language. Unigolyn 15:57, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I suggest that my edit ([1]) is the best starting point around, but since we are deterimened to have shieldcruftiness in this article, the tag should remain. Hpuppet - «Talk» 18:21, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

I'll go over it at some point and see what I can do, just keep in mind that alot of the characters in "The Shield" are really hard to write NOPV's for. Especially the ones not dead. -- Makaio 05:00, 5 April 2006 (UTC)