Talk:Holland

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In response to the gentleman from Utrecht: Holland is most definately used by the dutch themselves, but it usually has a patriotic, nostalgic or affectionate sense. At international soccer matches for example, people cheer 'Holland!' instead of 'Netherlands!'. In most everyday use though, Nederland is the way the Netherlands is referred to.


I'm From holland as well, and i'm 100% sure that there isent a difference between holland and the netherlands.. its really the same country. so why are there 2 different artikels? owell... nevermind..


I'm from The Netherlands (Utrecht), and I'll make it clear to you. Between Dutch people, the word "Holland" is never used to refer to our country, people will always call it "Nederland". Strangely enough, we still use many words derived from Holland, which apply to all the provinces. Like Dutch cheese is translated as Hollandse kaas. Nobody ever says Nederlandse kaas. Holland is also often used in conjuction with our national soccer team. Probaly because it's shorter than Nederland and easier to use in songs.

To people from other countries, we often use Holland to refer to our country. The reason is simple: When you say you're from Holland (even when pronounced in Dutch), everybody immediately knows which country that is, since the word Holland is often the same or almost the same in other languages (Olanda, La Hollande etc.) In other languages, "The Netherlands" are often liturally translated (like Pays Bas in French), so these are much less reconizible for Dutchmen.

In addition, the word "Hollanders" is used in the Northern, Eastern and Southern parts of The Netherlands to refer to people from the Western and center parts of The Netherlands. Quink.


203.0.180.2, the text you keep adding is incorrect. The Netherlands is no longer used for Belgium, an no Belgian is offended by the Netherlands referring to that country, as no Belgian considers himself as such. Also, common usage doesn't make things correct. We often say England or Great Britain when we mean the United Kingdom (of Great Britain and Northern Ireland), or America when we mean the United States (of America). Jeronimo

It is not the job of an encyclopedia to tell people what to use. As a Limburger I may be insulted by the Netherlands being called Holland, but that does not change the fact that a significant amount of English speakers refer to the Netherlands as Holland.--user:Branko
When I lived in The Netherlands I met lots of Dutch people who explained it's common for them to refer to their country as Holland, although I think this only applies when they're speaking in English. In "Nederlands", as far as I remember, they never refer to their country as Holland. It annoyed the hell out of me that they'd use the same logic for Scotland and England. We Scots DO mind! :) - dduck Dduck 13:06, 9 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I've edited the text further regarding the Holland/Netherlands issue, see Talk:Netherlands. Also amended the etymology and removed Holland Tunnel which I believe is named after its engineer/builder, not this Holland. Scipius 21:28 Sep 20, 2002 (UTC)

From my own education the etymological link to holt land is incorrect, for a number of reasons too: 1) holt is a scandinavian root, while hol is a native root, 2) the evolution of Dutch in language would not have dropped a t that easily, 3) that region of the netherlands is, and has always been, a very low-density area for woods, so the naming would be totally illogical as well.

  1. This can't be proven - and then there were plenty of Vikings and Saxons around at the time.
  2. In fact it's very common in Hollandic to drop the t's (never forget the standard language is largely Brabantian)- besides the region might well have been Frisian.
  3. Perhaps the name originally referred to the wooded transitional area between the dunes and the peat lands as the latter probably were almost uninhabited. And then bushes are "wood" too.--MWAK 11:51, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] It's "Holland" in cricket

In the sport of cricket, the Dutch team refers to itself as "Holland". Here is a picture of a Dutch player at the 2005 ICC Trophy competition, showing clearly the team name on his shirt. [1] I suppose this is similar to the fact that Welsh cricketers play for England. (Also mentioned on Talk:Netherlands.)

Note that Nederland has a full three syllables.--MWAK 15:31, 22 January 2006 (UTC)
Dutch football audiences show shawls with the text Holland on it, but when the country names are shown on television Netherlands is the name, which is official and correct.--84.26.109.69 12:23, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Colonies of Holland

I'm removing this as it should be in the Netherlands article not the Holland article. Arthur Holland 08:04, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree. It actually is a copy of a paragraph in the Netherlands article, and that is the proper location. -- Eugene van der Pijll 09:59, 15 April 2006 (UTC)


what r u hanging with @ wek end

[edit] the Netherlands or Holland?

Hello, I am coming from Czechia (Czech Republic), in Dutch language it means Tsjechië or Tsjechische Republiek. Many Czechs call our country simply Čechy, however this name covers only the historical land Bohemia and not the whole Czechia. Nearly all Czechs call the Netherlands/Nederland simply Holandsko = Holland, but the correct name would be Nizozemsko or Nizozemí = Nederland.

As a Dutchman living in the province of Noord-Brabant I personally find it rather insulting (misrecognizing the fact that ten of the twelve provinces do not belong to the region properly called Holland) if someone uses Holland to refer to the Netherlands. I always use the Netherlands when I refer to my country in English, but most Dutch people are uncomfortable with using articles in front of country names. That's why Dutchmen use Holland for the Netherlands in English. The Dutch people not being used to use articles in front of country names also leads to pars pro toto mistakes in Dutch such as Engeland for het Verenigd Koninkrijk, which would insult Scots and Welshmen gravely. These mistakes happen constantly on a daily basis (with myself not taking part in this mistake, though I am sometimes tempted to use Groot-Brittannië (without article) instead). Using Holland for the Netherlands and England for the United Kingdom is just a sloppy use of language. It isn't wrong per se but it is certainly not stylish, tidy or correct. It is recommended to use language in a way which insults the least people; that's called etiquette. I don't feel hatred or contempt towards Holland (the two provinces I mean) (I don't speak the Brabantian dialect and even consider a large part of the Brabantian population to be too provincial), but using Holland for the Netherlands is a testimony of ignorance in the broadest sense of the word. A lot of elderly people in Brabant and Limburg would be seriously distraught if you use Holland instead of Netherlands: to them Holland means exploitation and (religious) repression conducted by Protestants against Catholics (a majority in the southern part of the Netherlands). I wouldn't use England for the UK, knowing that I would offend Scottish and Welsh people. I even don't use Great Britain to refer to the UK, knowing that most British people (including English) say for example "In the UK..." It is rather sad that English language speakers and Dutchmen alike make these minor though potentially awkward mistakes. --84.26.109.69 12:23, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
The simple fact is that many people do use "Holland" for "the Netherlands", whether you like it or not. (Ever heard the "Hup Holland Hup" at a soccer game of the national team?) Your personal feelings ("rather insulting"; "not stylish", "a testimony of ignorance") are totally irrelevant. Skarioffszky 19:24, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
How is it ignorant to stand up for the truth? With people like you people would still think the earth is flat..

I talked to a guy from Holland. He call it Holland not Netherlands. My self I'm from Denmark, and nothing is called Netherlands or something related to that. The name of the country in Danish is Holland the same with Norwegian and Swedish. I have always thought that its only in English its called Netherlands. --Arigato1 19:33, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Map issues

If this article is about Holland, then why is the exact same map of The Netherlands (from the article on The Netherlands) showing all of the other pronvinces/regions, without any highlight/focus on North Holland and South Holland? I suggest someone find or create map similar to those that are entirely gray save for the area discussed. The map used in the Bretagne article could make a good model. CJ Withers 13:34, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Here you go :) --Astrokey44 15:37, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] holland

The primary definition of the word holland is an abbreviated form of "holy land."

It has also been used by a country in northern Europe called Holland.

Additionally, the word is used as a name for a type of cloth.

[edit] Ultimately (possibly)? Which is it?

From the article:

The name Holland ultimately stems (possibly) from holt land ("wooded land")

I don't think you can possibly ultimately stem from something ... you either utlimately stem, or possibly stem but not both. That's like saying some thing is "possibly absolutely" certain ...


[edit] "Schlovfterdeich"

Anyone know whether to take that seriously? It is also present in the Uncyclopedia, but nowhere else - I Googled it. Remove? --Mirithing 12:42, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Untrue mentioning of transferred villages

It says "More recent territorial changes are the transfer of Oudewater, Woerden and Vianen from South Holland to the province of Utrecht, in 1600, 1989 and 2002 respectively." This is unfortunately not true, I think. These villages, Woerden and Vianen I'm certain about, were Utrecht villages all along, so no transfer in recent history. Please give factual information.

According to these websites and my memory the information you dispute is correct. [2] [3] [4] Bart van der Pligt 14:42, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
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