Talk:Hogwarts

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You have new messages (last change).
This page is within the scope of WikiProject Harry Potter, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to J. K. Rowling's Harry Potter universe. If you would like to participate, you can choose to edit the article attached to this page, or visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
B
This article has been rated as Class B on the quality scale.
Top
This article has been rated as Top-Importance on the importance scale.
Archive
Archives
  1. January 2003 – August 2006



Contents

[edit] Distance learning?

Which ancillary staff member used this method? The textual basis for this statement should be specified or it should be removed. savidan(talk) (e@) 20:21, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

Sorry - missed the question here. Answered on in the article yesterday. In Chamber of Secrets (ch. 8), Harry discovers Argus Filch the Caretaker was attempting to study KWIKSPELL - A Correspondence Course in Beginners' Magic. --T-dot 01:47, 11 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Link to Hogwarts layout

Shouldn't there be a link to Hogwarts layout somewhere within the article? 70.50.174.238 14:57, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

THANK YOU - I was just trying to find that other Hogwarts article yesterday to link a classroom to an article. Consider it Done. --T-dot 15:03, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

The website http://www.oddment-tweak.com features architectural models and floorplans which adhere precisely to the textual information about Hogwarts.--Harper09 22:53, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] British spelling

The rest of Wikipedia consistently uses the American spealling, so why are we suddenly using the British spelling here? E946 16:28, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia does not consistently use American English. Wikipedia has clearly stated guidelines on which styles of English should be used within the Manual of style. Therefore as Harry Potter is set in Britain written by a British author and originally published in Britain, the appropriate language style for Harry Potter articles is British English. Hope that helped, regards. Death Eater Dan (Muahaha) 17:22, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
Though my dictionary says that "enrolment" is a British spelling of "enrollment," I asked two British friends who both said it was "enrollment," so case closed. --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 22:42, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
ROFL, whilst I'm not really bothered over the enrolment/enrollment issue I find it very funny that on the say so of 2 'experts' that it is case closed. I'm sure that all the compilers of British dictionaries will be most agrieved to know that they are all wrong, according to 2 British friends, i'll look for thier corrected entries in the next editions. Death Eater Dan (Muahaha) 22:52, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Haha, I'm reading that back and feeling a bit stupid right now… what I tried to say but failed rather amusingly was that "enrolment" was listed as a British spelling of "enrollment." To find out which usage was more common, I asked around some Brits I know and they opted for double Ls. Dictionaries don't always go with the popular vote, they list all the possibilities. So… seems like the anon who was persisiting in it has gone away anyway, so what the hell. --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 01:20, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
Lol no probs, must admit it made me giggle. But like I said i'm not overly bothered by the enrolment/enrollment issue because as far as British/American spelling issues go its a very minor one due to both versions being in general use here in Britain. Death Eater Dan (Muahaha) 01:43, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

We should at least be consistent. If "enrollment" has been decided upon, I'm changing it in the info box to match. 70.53.0.122 16:47, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Which dictionary did you check? "Enrolment" is the British English spelling. Verbs ending in "l" double the "l" before a vowel (c.f. traveller) but not before a consonant; "fulfilment" is another example. I'm afraid that when it comes to doubled letters, asking the man on the street is not a reliable substitute for a good dictionary; if you ask ten random people to spell "accommodation" you will probably find many of them get it wrong, but "accommodation" is still the only acceptable spelling of the word in formal written English. 84.70.141.228 15:12, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
In further support of "enrolment" (and "enrol") being the British spellings: American_and_British_English_spelling_differences#Altered_roots

[edit] Rewrite

After seeing the disorganized state of the current article, I decided that it would be a good idea to completely rewrite this article. I set up a user subpage to edit behind the scenes. i'm more or less done, and I want to make sure nobody has a problem with it before I make the change (Which is why I put in the template)

There's only a few issues right now, including:

  • Bad introduction
  • Bad layout and grounds section

The new article can be found here. Please make any changes you want. In a week, I'll copy everything over to this article if nobody has any major objections.

E946 08:03, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

E946, if you don't mind, I'm going to make a few changes to your draft. You can of course revert or change them as you like, they're just things which were recently added to the article which are not present. Good work! --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 13:56, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Something to consider rewriting this article: I think that Wikipedia policy only allows one screenshot on a page, but the draft currently has 3. I haven't seen this anywhere except as a note above the screenshots section under "licensing" on the upload page, and I'm not sure if this is a matter of copyright or of style. Also, I added a link to the WikiProject talk page to alert the community. Should the rewriting be noted anywhere else? -Phi*n!x 02:54, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
I've never heard that, actually. I just saw a good picture of the sorting hat in another article so I added it. Where can we go to ask if it's okay? E946 05:12, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
The Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe has at least five screenshots or so. I don't know, though, if it's closely monitored. I think, if you go by the reasoning that it's to help illustrate the topic in question, it's considered fair use. The Sorting Hat, then, is fine, because you want to illustrate the Sorting ceremony. To ask, you should probably try the Village pump (technical). --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 13:38, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
You can to User talk:QuarterZ#Images. This user wanted User:AndyZ to upload an image of Snape (He didn't know how to at a time) and Andy didn't want to because there were to many screenshots there. Another one is the history of Ron Weasley where User:T-dot removed screenshots so there was very little and Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (film). Any articles having 2 or more screenshots; one needs to be removed. You can see WP:FUC for the violation rule. Carmelapple 14:12, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
From what I see, WP:FUC doesn't specifically say that there should be only one screenshot, but that unfree images should be as limited as possible (rule #3). I agree that the ways the images are being used on the Hogwarts draft are fine and legal, but I am curious if we can figure out what's up with the policy. (On a side note, the Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe page has eight screenshots and I have suggested on its talk page that this be changed.) Also, I have posted this before on this talk page: wouldn't a Hogwarts blazon be an appropriate image for the article? I'll scan one from a Bloomsbury edition if I can get help with the fair use rationale. -Phi*n!x 17:27, 2 August 2006 (UTC)
It's pretty much impossible to describe the blazon without a picture, you're not stopping them from selling any books, and you're not making a profit. There's your fair use. E946 09:50, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

If nobody else has any problems with this, then i'll just change it over when I wake up later today. E946 09:54, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I really hate people who archive things which are eseentially active discussions, so I have restored the last section which had been archived. Sandpiper 17:42, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Other Schools

Out of curiosity, where does JKR say that the Salem witches institute is a school. The only hint we get from the books implies the Salem WI is exactly that, a branch of the womens Institute. I don't know if this existsin the US, but in the Uk this is essentially a club for adult qomen, traditionly hot on cooking, household interestes, and giving politicians a bad time. Sandpiper 18:14, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't know entirely. I thought it was some character who were mentioned in passing at the QWC. --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 22:41, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
Rowling never says that it's a school. The only mention of it is in the chapter Bagman and Crouch in Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire: "...while a group of middle-aged American witches sat gossiping happily beneath a spangled banner stretched between their tents which read: Salem Witches' Institute." The HP Lexicon says that it is "possibly a school." I'd say that this isn't really enough to warrant its inclusion in this article. 67.68.139.97 00:03, 15 August 2006 (UTC)
I rewrote it, saying that it is only possibly a school and that it has not been confirmed as one. 70.53.0.122 16:38, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Enrollment Book

Where does it say people may appear in this book any time up to age 11? I understood it to be a magical book which records every birth when it happens, though I have no idea where information about it comes from. Sandpiper 18:54, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

I changed it. The facts were wrong. --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 22:40, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Fees

I don't recall any mention of anyone paying fees to go to Hogwarts, so why do we suggest that there might be some. The only mention I recall is essentially if the school paying students, never the other way around. Sandpiper 18:54, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

The topic of fees is brought up because fees are paid to go to some schools. For the sake of completeness, we have to mention that nothing is known about paying to go to Hogwarts. --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 22:36, 14 August 2006 (UTC)
then I think it needs a rephrase since my reaction was that it casts doubt on whether maybe fees are paid.

AS far as I am aware, there is no mention of school fees at Hogwarts. There is, however, a sort of scholarship available for students who do not have enough money to pay for their books etc, as with Tom Riddle.

Hardship fund, rather than scholarship (as far as I am aware, a scholarship gives one free access to a fee-paying school). But since one would expect even a cursory mention of fees from the Weasleys, it is unlikely (but not impossible) that it is fee paying. Michaelsanders 12:10, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
Ironically, that would make it a state (public for the Americans) school.Michaelsanders 12:10, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Uniforms

I looked through this article and was quite perturbed to discover that the only mention of the students' uniforms is in the items contained in the acceptance letter to Hogwarts. I also was unable to find any other article about the Hogwarts uniforms. Was this merely an oversight of mine or is there truly no Wikipedia information about this subject? If so, can that please be rectified by a knowledgeable member? 70.107.96.220 20:56, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I think if you were to find anything on uniforms it'd be in this article. If you know any little bits on it, be bold and start a new section on the article, probably under "Student life," and contribute what you know. In the mean time, I'll do a little work and hope some other frequent editors of the page will do something, too. --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 05:50, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Location used for filming?

It would be intersting to know which castle was used -- Lee Carré 08:04, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Ah, List of places in the Harry Potter_books#Muggle locations used in the Harry Potter films has some info, should be a link from this article though, perhaps also adding the box at the bottom of the page for general Harry Potter navigation. -- Lee Carré 08:22, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Trivia

If anyone wants this in the article, it should be incorporated into the existing text, not in its own section. John Reaves 22:04, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Trivia

[edit] A mention of the Black Lake, please

Hi. I was just editing Black Lake (Disambiguation) and Loch Shiel (Black Lake in the films), and I'm surprised to see that Black Lake isn't mentioned in Hogwarts. Can somebody please add? Thanks. -- 201.50.248.179 09:40, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm not sure I remember it ever so called in the books. Michaelsanders 09:45, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
I'm not either. :-) I'll try to check what I can. But there's pretty definitely a lake near Hogwarts, at least. -- 201.50.248.179 10:19, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Mentioned in Wikipedia Grindylow, for whatever that's worth (might help track down a print reference). -- 201.50.248.179 10:24, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Well, this article isn't really the place for that. If it isn't properly covered in Hogwarts layout, put it in there; but here, there is already a mention that Hogwarts is situated by a lake, and nothing else is needed. As for the term 'Black Lake' - well, the Grindylow article doesn't source its use. If you can find a canonical use of the name, then cite it and use it where appropriate. Michaelsanders 12:57, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
The Black Lake is not canon, having never been called as such in the books. This stems from a reference to the name in the fourth film and and eponymous song from the soundtrack. See here and search for "black lake." --Fbv65edel / ☑t / ☛c || 18:18, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Oh dear. Film pollution (and I didn't realise! Kicking myself, here...) DO NOT use the term anywhere near a canon-based article! And I'm removing it from the Grindylow article.
Sorry, but I do get slightly wound up by the film fiddlings. Michaelsanders 18:31, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
I do not believe there is a problem with mentioning that the Loch at Hogwarts is referred to as the Black Lake in the movie(s). If a thing is called one thing in the Books, and something else in the movie, then we give canonical preference to the Books first, and mention, in passing, the alternate name from the film. While the movies may not be "perceived" to be "as canonical" as the books, they are still a record of the Harry Potter universe, and are worthy of mention. It is not as if there is an ongoing battle between Warner Bros. and JK Rowling over who "owns" the Potter franchise and who gets "preference" when there are differences in how that universe is portrayed. I am convinced that if Rowling had a strong objection to the name "Black Lake", due to contradicting her storyline or whatever, then she would have forced them change it somehow "in post".
Of course there is the unfortunate matter of the alternative endings of Quirrell in Philosopher's Stone, and consequently whether Potter should then have seen Thestrals afterwards, but that is more of an unusual exception than a common problem between the two approaches to the storyline. To my knowledge, Rowling has ignored the Quirrell problem and only referred to her version of that story, with regards to the Thestrals. --T-dot (Talk | contribs) 19:12, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Has the lake ever been called a loch? Michaelsanders 19:15, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Well not in the books. Actually this was another old theory once kicked around, apparently lost to wiki-antiquity. Hogwarts was theorized to be located to the north, in Scotland, where deep and sometimes mysterious lakes are called lochs (eg: Loch Ness); and what with the Durmstrang ship arriving submerged from afar, it would seem to have needed an inlet as access to the sea, and yada yada yada ... thus a loch. Anyway in our first introduction to "the lake" in Book 1 near the end of chapter 6, as Harry arrives with the first-years, "The narrow path had opened suddenly onto the edge of a great black lake." In book 4, the lake is also described as normally having a "smooth black surface", when the Durmstrang ship arrives, so it is not a stretch to imagine the students and teachers referring to it colloquially as "the black lake", if not properly as The Black Lake. --T-dot (Talk | contribs) 19:56, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for your comments/research. :-) Re lochs/lakes, Loch says "A loch ... is a body of water which is either: a lake or a sea inlet.... This name for a body of water is Gaelic[1] in origin and is applied to most lakes in Scotland and to many sea inlets in the west and north of Scotland. .... Scotland has only one natural water body actually called a lake, the Lake of Menteith." -- Again, people may have the idea that Hogsmeade / Hogwarts are located in Scotland because Loch Shiel (used for the Lake in the films) is in Scotland. -- 201.50.248.179 15:14, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, all for intelligent handling of this topic. IMHO (1) We should add a quick mention of "the lake" to Hogwarts (2) We should mention that it's called "the Black Lake" in the films, but not in the books. -- 201.50.248.179 15:14, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] SVG Coat of Arms

Old, low-res jpeg

New scalable vector CoA. Note that the latin text is readable

I made an SVG version of the Coat of Arms og Hogwarts, and replaced the old jpeg with it. It was soon reverted because John Reaves called it "cartoony", and I must admit, the first version was pretty cartoony. But having improved it to what you see on the above, I don't see why having the old jpeg would be favourable.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Image_use_policy#Rules_of_thumb

“ "Use JPEG format for photographic images, and SVG format for icons, logos, drawings, maps, flags, and such, falling back to PNG when only a raster image is available. Use GIF format for inline animations, Ogg/Theora for video." ”

I'm sure there are many pretty low-res jpeg images of the US president's seal, but for some reason, an svg is preferred.

If you think this SVG looks like shit, just (say what to) improve, instead of whining "it's impossible to make it better", because thats simply not true - Hogwarts' logo is a very simple logo. A classic case of a vectorisable jpeg.

S. Solberg J.

16:11, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

It still looks ugly. And 'cartoony' is a good word - it doesn't look real, it just looks poor quality. Poor contrast and depth, poor depiction of the details (for example the central 'H'), crude depiction of the animals, over-bold colours - it looks like the central feature of an anime, not the Hogwarts coat of arms (for the record, even svg animals on real coats of arms are given better depictions than here). The jpeg, on the other hand, looks good, is readable, is realistic and tasteful. Progress and compliance with the rules are laudable goals here, but not at the expense of quality - as is recognised by the rules - this replacement coat of arms is entirely inferior and will damage the quality of the article, and therefore we are expected to disregard the rules in that area. Michael Sanders 18:41, 17 March 2007 (UTC)
Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org../../../h/o/g/Talk%7EHogwarts_9d20.html"