Talk:Hobart

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[edit] Map

I have added a map of Tasmania showing the Hobart City Council area to the article:

Hobart City Council, Tasmania
Hobart City Council, Tasmania

However, I'm sure if it looks right - due to the size of the council, and also because the article is more about the city, Hobart (about three times the size of the Hobart City Council area). I have only added it to complete the maps I am adding to other Local Government Areas of Tasmania. Suggestions? --Chuq 12:47, 10 May 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Naming of Local Government areas

You should use the correct (legal?) name for these areas - ie the 'City of Hobart', not 'Hobart City Council area'. The Council administers the area known as the 'City of Hobart'.

A more prominent colour would be useful.

Is this an up-to-date map, reflecting all the changes over the last decade?

I note that some of the Council names don't seem to be the current one.

[edit] New format

New format looks very good, well done! I'd probably change the Geography section to mention Greater Hobart including the eastern shore as well as western shore, don't want to forget about the people out at Howrah and Bellerieve --kudz75 02:52, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the comment Kudz, I'm glad someone noticed :) I've mentioned the Greater Hobart / City of Hobart deal in the Government section, but maybe it warrants it in Geography too. I might include details of outlying towns as well.
Btw, have you checked out the Wikipedia:Australian wikipedians' notice board? -- Chuq 03:52, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Population

For the first time in history Hobart's population has recently exceeded 202,000.

[edit] Image reversion

I will fix up the coat of arms later - just wanted to revert for now, due to Tasmanian Devil being todays featured article, Hobart may have higher than usual traffic. -- Chuq 10:00, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Sport Section

This section is more about Tasmania rather than Hobart. I think this should probably be moved to its own page, something along the lines of Sport in Tasmania. Jgritz 06:09, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The four Hobarts

From looking through the ABS and RDPC websites the last couple of days, it appears there are four definitions of Hobart:

  1. Hobart city centre refers to the "suburb of Hobart" area - bounded by Battery Point, Sandy Bay, South Hobart, West Hobart, North Hobart, Queens Domain, and Glebe.
  2. City of Hobart refers to the Hobart City Council area. (pop ~50,000)
  3. Hobart urban centre refers to the area specified in this document - Granton to Taroona, Geilston Bay to Tranmere (pop ~125,000)
  4. Greater Hobart refers to the above area, plus Kingston-Blackmans Bay, Howden, Margate, Bridgewater-Gagebrook, Old Beach, Seven Mile Beach, Cambridge, South Arm, New Norfolk, Sorell-Midway Point (pop ~200,000)

Would it make sense to have an article on each of these?

  1. Yes, Hobart city centre - this is a pseudo-suburb article, see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Australian places#Articles names about a city centre
  2. Yes, City of Hobart - it is an LGA
  3. Probably not, but we may need articles on Kingston-Blackmans Bay and Bridgewater-Gagebrook - to differentiate them from Kingston, Tasmania and Bridgewater, Tasmania, which are suburb articles
  4. Yes, Hobart currently focuses on this - although I don't believe it currently includes places like New Norfolk and Sorell within its scope.

Note that my map in the article with the green City of Hobart and teal Greater Hobart is inaccurate - the "Greater Hobart" marked here is somewhere between 3 and 4 in this list by area.

Opinions/ideas? -- Chuq 01:20, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Comment: To compare 3 and 4, check the maps at the bottom of page 10 of this PDF. -- Chuq 02:32, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
I think every city in australia has the same problem. Its good that chuq has brought this out into the open - as otherwise the misunderstandings waste so much time and talk page space. If ths resolution works out here - I suggest that the WP Australia Places be alerted for possible resolutions in other capital cities with the same issues arising. It requires some agility and dexterity on the part of eds to distinguish between the variations (maybe a box with links in each art?) but it would be worth it. SatuSuro 02:37, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
No city in Australia is particularly well defined, unlike European ones where they had a habit of building walls around things :P I'd agree with 1, 2 and 4 - but I'd say New Norfolk and Sorell (having been to both) are clearly distinct towns with their own activity separate from Hobart and are separated by some distance from the metro. In Perth the limit has been drawn by the Dept of Local Government and Regional Development where they say certain council areas are in while others are out, although I don't know how applicable this is to Hobart's situation. Orderinchaos78 02:48, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
4 Greater Hobart
H   "Hobart"   "Hobart"  
3 Margate Kingston-Blackmans Bay Hobart urban centre Richmond Bridgewater-Gagebrook Brighton
2 Kingborough Council City of Hobart City of Glenorchy City of Clarence Brighton Council
1 Margate Kingston Blackmans Bay Hobart city centre Sandy Bay Moonah Glenorchy Rosny Howrah Richmond Bridgewater Gagebrook Brighton

Here is a table which should complicate things even more explain things. Rows numbered 1 (towns/suburbs), 2 (LGAs), 3 (urban centres) and 4 (statistical boundary) show the four Hobart's as mentioned above. The "H" row shows the "commonly accepted definition of Hobart" as described by Orderinchaos (that is - Hobart urban centre + Kingston-Blackmans Bay + Bridgewater-Gagebrook). I think it is the definition that is the most accurate but, sadly it is the least encyclopaedic. -- Chuq 03:29, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 2nd Oldest City in Australia

The first line of the Newcastle NSW article is "Newcastle is the sixth largest and the second oldest city in Australia.."

However, the Hobart article also claims "Hobart is the state capital and most populous city of the Australian island state of Tasmania. Founded in 1804 as a penal colony, it is Australia's second oldest and eleventh largest city..."

Only one of these can be right. Which is it? --Mckinlayr 04:01, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

I grew up in Launceston and was always taught that Launceston is Australia's third oldest city, behind Sydney and Hobart. I notice both Hobart and Newcastle's articles just state "1804" as the year of founding of their respective settlements. -- Chuq 03:51, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
Google for 'australia's second oldest city' shows Parramatta, Newcastle, Hobart and Launceston among the contenstants! -- Chuq 03:53, 29 December 2006 (UTC)
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