Talk:Ho Yeow Sun

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This topic contains controversial issues, some of which have reached a consensus for approach and neutrality, and some of which may be disputed. Should you wish to make any substantial changes or additions;

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Contents 1 Pls don't remove claims, add counter-claims instead 2 Unnecessary Info 3 Criticism 4 Invalid References 5 Repeated mentioned of facts 6 Incorrect facts 7 POV warning tag 8 NB: Anon user seemed to plagiarize websites' works 9 Please put most recent on top 10 POV reason, pls 11 Specify newspaper edition (date) 12 Re: Article POV & Clarification 13 Removed a sentence 14 Removed references to 2 blogs - References to blog undesirable 15 Bias or Slant 16 5566 dispute 17 Chart Placement 18 Removal Of Comments related to SUN's albums' sales and awards 19 Controversy - Distancing herself from the church ? 20 SUN as co-founder of City Harvest Community Services Association 21 REMOVAL OF MENTION OF 5566

[edit] Pls don't remove claims, add counter-claims instead

Wikipedia is meant to be an encyclopedia-like website. I have edit these "truths" (without factual proofs) as claims. These are claims, not fact. If some people don't agree these claims as true then counter-claim it. Remove some of the full picture is not neutral, not "wikipedic". Cat12zu 13:49, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

Negative information and criticism regarding living persons must be properly attributed. Wikipedia is much stricter about this than it is about most subjects. I am not a fan of Ho Yeow Sun or City Harvest Church. Just pointing this out as many people are unaware of the policy. Kla'quot 19:56, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Unnecessary Info

Removed "Israel's defense minister during the Six-Day War and architect of Camp David Accords." To know more about Moshe Dayan, use it's link.

[edit] Criticism

In the article, there is no mentioned of ""loose" lifestyle before she was converted to Christianity" and "it didn't led to a huge furore in Singapore". Furore means raging fury, which did not happen in the country. It says "most of it (BGR) were innocent and innocuous". "However, supporters claimed these as a false accusation." is not true. There are no false accusation here and there are no supporters claiming these are false accusations. These are just incorrect facts.

" Another claim was Ho's giving free concerts, with the cooperation of churches overseas in the year 2004, in countries such as Australia" - Unrelated in Criticism.

[edit] Invalid References

Please note that URL link of "New Arrival". City Harvest Church." is not valid. Not all pages in direct links are static.

[edit] Repeated mentioned of facts

"...Armani dress..." mentioned in Criticism and Controversies section.

[edit] Incorrect facts

I am not sure wikipedian(s) got their facts correct. The last time I checked for eg. "she has had more than 50 boyfriends in her early age" is incorrect, perhaps "..more than 50.." is like wild guess. According to the article, it's 42. I noticed there are outright deletion under the Awards and Performances section much due to the aim to present facts rather than wording it descriptively. Therefore, the same must apply to Criticism and Controversies (esp. tabloid news).

Much of this article and other City-Harvest-related articles, at least from what I observed, seemed to be a mere a copy of original works. Therefore, in this article, much of both Awards and Performances section are a mere copy of original works that justified the re-wording of the contents. There seemed to be no outright deletion of both sections. In this case, a short summary of such awards and her achievements (with links to respective websites/media/books) is preferred instead of Wholesale copy of such copyrighted works.

In the Criticism section, I'm refering outright deletion as a blanket deletion of few paragraphs (removing whole paragraphs, not part of them or phrases/words) in this section. If you feel that the such statements are not factual then append your counter-statements instead of removing it wholesomely.

Cat12zu 12:30, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

"much of both Awards and Performances section are a mere copy of original works" - Please give example. And this has to be apply to the other sections. --Tripartite 15:34, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] POV warning tag

Edit war seemed between presumably pro-Ho Yeow Sun and the rest of wikipedians. I noticed that some (at least one) pro-Ho wikipedian(s) seemed to made this article more-POV than usual, especially outright deletion of criticism section without constructive explanations/(if necessary) discussions. Therefore, I tag this article. Cat12zu 12:18, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] NB: Anon user seemed to plagiarize websites' works

Please do not plagiarize other works. Much of the anon user on those CHC-related articles such as CHCSA, Ho Yeow Sun, etc.. seemed to be from websites. --Cat12zu 03:55, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Please put most recent on top

Pls put most recent on top rather than way bottom. Thanks. --Cat12zu 19:30, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] POV reason, pls

Sorry I forgot to mention that you need an explaination or reason why you put POV tag. Now the article seemed balanced. For now i removed POV tag. --Cat12zu 19:30, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Specify newspaper edition (date)

Pls, pls don't revert someone else works wholesomely, unless there is really a good reason eg. vandalism, nonsense. If there's POV bias, put a tag. Pls don't delete legitmate works, merge them instead. It's rude to people who spend time contributing to wikipedia.

Can you specify which newspaper edition (date) mentioned about Ho's interview?

Also pls specify source about the following, so that people can merge this paragraph. Sorry but for now it's source is vague.

This was due to a man who claimed to be a City Harvest Church member and wrote to the press about him being solicited to buy CDs. However, it was later discovered he was never a member of the church, and his writings were unfounded. The man published an unreserved apology on the newspapers. There was also no evidence of this as Sun topped the charts mostly in Taiwan, China, Hong Kong and even the United States and UK, where it is not possible to be the work of church members.

Em. You maybe not clear about yourself by disagreeing yourself with "local media sensationalised".

--Cat12zu 00:09, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

• If so many good points is also mentioned, why delete 2 negative point about Ho Yeow Sun? The issue discussed is published in local singaporean media, despite restriction imposed by the government, self-censorship and threat of possible charges of libel if deemed found to be a "false news". Both side of views must be represented, but it's seemed bias towards one side & hence POV.

[edit] Re: Article POV & Clarification

Ja. I agree. However, what do you mean by "The issue is discussed in local media, despite government restriction"?

Cat12zu 01:54, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

• I meant that strict norms are imposed by the government regarding the local media, which includes moderation & modesty. Paparazzi-type or those nasty news in taiwan & hk are out-of-bounds in Singapore media. So, in this environment, the "pastor"/"singing pastor" issue discussed in the media are not falsified or even sensationalised. Sorry but I disagree with the word "local media sensationalised". It's not.

[edit] Removed a sentence

I have removed this line:

In April 2004, Ho was invited to grace the opening of Sun Plaza-a mall named in her honor³, in Medan, Indonesia.

I checked the reference given and it doesn't mention the mall being named after her, therefore making the sentence irrelevant to mention. Hayabusa future 10:56, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Removed references to 2 blogs - References to blog undesirable

• Points with references to a blog site are undesirable
• Blog sites usually written by an individual or a group tend to have over-unconstructive POV than even one-sided media or discussion, let alone be neutral media/discussions.Cat12zu 06:24, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Bias or Slant

This article seems to have some subjective material written with a bias. Here are some examples I'd like to highlight: "as well as a top international dance diva currently making waves"

"and frequently offers counseling over radio and magazines in China, Taiwan and Singapore" This implies a humanitarian motive, but what separates it from the likes of Jerry Springer, Oprah etc. where its paid/for-profit. I think this needs to (at the very least) be rephrased or more information added to separate it from other similar shows.

While she is married to the founder of City Harvest Church, there seem to be an over-abundance of links to this organization. The links should be more centric to her and not suggest a deeper affiliation.

Just my opinion! --Nycmstar 14:12, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] 5566 dispute

Regarding the text:

Some Chinese artists had disputed the result of her performance, such as Taiwanese band 5566.

What exactly is the dispute? Can someone clarify or reword, and add the references. thanks. --Vsion 00:46, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Chart Placement

I reformatted the insane list of chart placements into the discography section. Did not include all from the list though.

Also removed some stuffs under "Other Recognitions". I want to remove the whole section. Grrr!! Dodo bird 18:55, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removal Of Comments related to SUN's albums' sales and awards

I have removed the following sections :

She is closely linked to the City Harvest Church (CHC). There is much hype about her popularity in Singapore and Taiwan, as her album sales are strongly supported by the mega churches in these area. Much of her album sales are aggressive touted during churches services and majority of her patron purchased her album due to peer pressure and of loyalty to the church (CHC).

There is much contraversy regarding she should get this award due to the fact that majority of her album sales is brought by her own church.

As stated by Wikipedia, "This article must adhere to the policy on biographies of living persons. Controversial material of any kind that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libelous."

These additions are controversial and are sensationalized rather then anything else.

Jing13 03:44, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Controversy - Distancing herself from the church ?

The section about SUN's interview with PR.com written by Mark Choo had been removed due to the following reasons :

In Mark Choo's own words she further distanced herself from the church, this is clearly his own personal opinion and not a NPOV.

The whole extract about the interview can be found at [1]. At no point in the interview had she denied anything about the Church.

As such, the statement about Sun Ho that she further distanced herself from the church is controversial and sensationalized. There is no source, no citation or any evidence to point to this fact. To quote from Wikipedia again, "Controversial material of any kind that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libelous."

Jing13 02:10, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] SUN as co-founder of City Harvest Community Services Association

The section on SUN as the co-founder of City Harvest Community Services Association had been removed as the reference given is from a web site run by an individual. [2] This source might not be reliable.

There is no mention that SUN is the co-founder of City Havest Community Services Association in the Community Services Association's web site [3]

Jing13 02:46, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] REMOVAL OF MENTION OF 5566

I have removed "Some Chinese artists disputed the result of her performance, such as Taiwanese band 5566" as there are no reference or whateverso that 5566 did made such a statement.

There is no source, no citation or any evidence to point to this fact. To quote from Wikipedia again, "Controversial material of any kind that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately, especially if potentially libelous."

Jing13 01:50, 11 March 2007 (UTC)