User talk:Hjal

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[edit] Welcome!

Hello, Hjal, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!

bibliomaniac15 00:20, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome. I have looked at all of the links and have passed along the above once or twice. Hjal --Hjal 07:16, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rodger Young Bio

Hi, Hjal. Just to give you a heads-up, I removed the external bio link to Rodger Young that you placed on the Starship Troopers page. Links to other wikipedia pages are preferred, and since this page already links to Rodger Young at the first mention of Rico's transport, this didn't seem appropriate. If the bio link is appropriate, I suggest that you put it on Young's page. Cheers, and happy editing! -- Pawl 18:39, 24 November 2006 (UTC)

First, yes, I agree that the link to Rodger Young that you added is reasonable. Second, I'm not so sure sure about linking to the USS Valley Forge is smart - someone clicking through should be expecting to go to something about this ship "Valley Forge", not its namesake. (Well, actually, according to the naming convention that Heinlein cited, iirc, ships of that class were named after locations that "mudfeet made their names shine", not previous ships.) Similarly, the link to Ypres might be confusing to someone not familiar with the story, but I'm hoping that no one thinks that a ship collided with a city while "over Klendathu" - but perhaps I need to go in & rephrase that part in the article. (Lastly, now that I think about it, I don't think that Valley Forge or Ypres were of the ship class called "corvette", but I need to go back and read the story again.) -- Pawl 00:42, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] American High

Hey Hjal,

Thanks for the information. I have made the necessary changes to the American High School article, and made sure the original links to American High School now go directly to that page. I also added a disambiguation page for American High School. I am currently working on a larger plan to edit and clean up the American High School article, as it has relatively few sources and it is somewhat length and rambling.

Look forward to working with you in the future.

-Sukh17 09:10, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FUSD and Related Articles

Hey Hjal, I am actually in the middle of finals right now, and I am planning on doing a lot of work on all of the articles that I have created, standardizing all of the pages and possibly going around the area and adding photography of the schools to all of the pages. I have designed a larger plan for the American High School article. As you can see, I am making applying a new organizational scheme. The first section that I have added so far is about the Student Body, and I plan on adding and reorganizing the rest of the article into sections about the Administration, Sports and Clubs, Academics. I have not finalized the plan for this, but I will figure this all out next week when I am back home. -Sukh17 23:21, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Request for Assistance

hiya. I began some much-needed work on the Nancy Reagan article, but there seem to be some technical difficulties. As a fellow member of the WikiProject Biography, and a fellow secret cabal member (fnord ;) ), I would like to call upon you for a bit of assistance figuring out the weirdness there. You can help edit if you want, but I am primarily looking for help to address the weirdness. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Arcayne (talk • contribs) 05:11, 7 February 2007 (UTC).

I looked at the Nancy Reagan page, but I'm not sure that I understand what weirdness you are referring to.--Hjal 08:19, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Please chime in if you have a view

There's an interesting experience going on over at WikiProject California, and WikiProject Southern California.

Some time ago, WikiProject California members had placed their project tags on all articles about California cities. Those tags have been in place for some time. Recently certain members of WikiProject Southern California, after discussion on that project's talk page (only), decided to remove the WikiProject California tags for (almost all) Southern California cities, and replace the tags with WikiProject Southern California tags - only.

That is, the WikiProject Southern California members didn't simply add the WikiProject Southern California tag to Southern California cities, the WikiProject California tags were completely removed. This was done apparently without consultation with the WikiProject California members.

We are gathering responses to the following questions on those projects' talk pages:

Do you have a view whether the WikiProject California tag should be removed from a large number of cities in Southern California?

Do you have a view whether city article for Southern California cities should have more than one WikiProject tag?

Please let us know if you have a view! Spamreporter1 16:07, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gomes Elementary School

Hi Hjal, Thank you for your support in keeping the article for Gomes Elementary School. Please reexamine the page for Gomes Elementary School. I believe that this article now has proper assertion of notability, as well as other useful details which have all been clearly referenced. Hopefully this will all be enough to hold onto this article. Thank You. Sukh17 20:45, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Independent proposal for WP:CAL and WP:SOCAL tags

User Spamreporter1 has made a proposal for the tagging issue. He was not previously involved with either project before seeing this discussion, and I belive that his opinion therefore is NPOV. The suggestion is that articles that have no state-wide scope be tagged only locally. Please go to this section on the SoCal page to provide input. —Scouter Sig 18:46, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Invitation

Hello – Based on your significant contribution to one or more San Francisco Bay Area-related articles and/or stated interests on your homepage, I thought you might be interested in this project:

You have been invited to join the WikiProject San Francisco Bay Area, a collaborative effort focused on improving Wikipedia's coverage of the Bay Area. If you'd like to join, just add your name to the member list. Thanks for reading!

Peter G Werner 20:07, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Joke

Thanks for fixing that (larry the lobster) :) Troubleshooter 18:40, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] If you check the history of WP Talk California

If you check the history of WP Talk California, you'll see that another editor (not me) moved your comment. It's that kind of action that I was trying to avoid by copying comments to a condensed location. Spamreporter1 21:46, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Helping out with the Unassessed Wikipedia Biographies

Seeing that you are an active member of the WikiBiography Project, I was wondering if you would help lend a hand in helping us clear out the amount of unassessed articles tagged with {{WPBiography}}. Many of them are of stub and start class, but a few are of B or A caliber. Getting a simple assessment rating can help us start moving many of these biographies to a higher quality article. Thank you! --Ozgod 20:43, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome

Hi, Hjal, and welcome to WikiProject
San Francisco Bay Area!

We are a growing community of Wikipedia editors dedicated to identifying, categorizing, and improving articles relevant to the Bay Area. Here are some points that may be helpful:

Our main aim is to help improve Bay Area-related articles, so if people ask for help with an article, please try your hardest to help them if you are able.
Most important discussions take place on the project's main discussion page. It is highly recommended that you watchlist it.
The project has several ongoing and developing activities, such as article quality assessment, which you are welcome to participate.
Our system for improving lower-quality articles is Jumpaclass. If you'll be editing stub, start, or B-class articles, consider using Jumpaclass to track your progress.
If you have another language besides English, please consider adding yourself to our translation section, to help us improve our foreign Bay Area topics.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask on the talk page, and we will be happy to help you.

Again, welcome! We hope you enjoy working on this project.

Peter G Werner 02:19, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Environment barnstar

I have created a barnstar for Wikipedia:WikiProject Environment. Please visit the talk page to vote for the barnstar since there are no votes for 2 months. OhanaUnited 20:09, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikiproject Biography March 2007 Newsletter

The March 2007 issue of the Biography WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you. Mocko13 22:26, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] EditCountOptIn

I agree to the edit counter opt-in terms

[edit] Sausalito Marin City School District

I think you're off to a useful start in the NCES model. I have created article for nearly every one of the List of school districts in New Jersey and this would have been a useful model. Unlike teh attitude for schools, there has been little effort to delete school district articles. I would strongly suggest starting with the school districts, expanding these articles with district information, and then using that as a starting point to create school articles, first for high schools and then working our way down. Once you start looking. its remarkably easy to find reliable sources for high schools. There's little reason that virtually any high school can't have a pretty thorough article created in a short time. Keep it up and let me know if I can help. It would be extremely helpful if you could compe up with a procedure to extract the NCES data to be plugged into the template.Alansohn 19:09, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fremont, California

Hey Hjal. I just noticed that you removed some information from the Fremont, California page. Although I personally did not go to Mission San Jose High School, and do not personally admire it, the information and claim of MSJHS as a prestigious high school is very true. Additionally, it is the second oldest high school in Fremont. I am sure finding the sources and specific numbers to support this claim will be very easy, so perhaps it should be included. I am welcome to any other ideas. --Thank You! Sukh17 ^{Talk | Contribs} 06:51, 8 March 2007

I know that it is the most prestigious. I took it out for the reasons given in my edit summary (especially the uncited vanity aspect), but also because the information is out of place in the City article when no specific details were included about the other high schools. If somebody editied the section into a bulletted list, with bits about each school (Washington oldest and on NRHP, MSJ 2nd oldest and consistantly highest ranked academically, Kennedy a technology magnet or whatgever, etc.), then I think that it would fit in fine. It would still draw vandals, but there's no escaping that. I didn't check the history to see if you had added that bit--I was following the vandal to some other articles while you were getting rid of the bulk of the vandalism.--Hjal 07:02, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
- I didn't add that part to the article. It was just a little suggestion. Anyhow, appreciate the input as always. --Thank You! Sukh17 ^{Talk | Contribs} 07:12, 8 March 2007

[edit] New NRHP Collaboration Division

Hey, saw you were a participant in the National Register of Historic Places WikiProject. I thought I would let you know that there is a new Collaboration Division up for the project. The goal of the division is to select an article or articles for improvement to Good article standard or higher. There is a simple nomination process, which you can check out on the division subpage, to make sure each candidate for collaboration has enough interested editors. This is a good way to get a lot of articles to a quality status quickly. Please consider participating. More details can be seen at the division subpage. IvoShandor 11:07, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] U.S. centrism

Please do not impose American date formats on British English articles. Doing so is a breach of Wikipedia policy on the equality of British and American English. Stella Mercer 18:27, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] School merge template

I've reverted the school template. As a world encylopaedia Wikipedia has to accommodate all countries, not just the US. Such a template makes no sense for other countries (ie, the rest of the world apart from the US and possibly Canada) which don't have school districts. Perhaps there should be a separate US-specific template if there is a need to mention school districts. I would have thought that the word "locality" would cover school districts anyway. Dahliarose 18:16, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Despite the fact that WP is intended to accomodate all countries, it is not necessary that every single word or phrase apply worldwide. In many cases, such as this one, that is not even possible. An American "school district" is not a "locality" as most speakers of American English would understand the term. It turns out, as discussed in WP's own Locality article, that for the U.S., at least, "locality" does not "mean" what most of us have been using it to mean in school-related discussions.

In geography, a locality is a place. This is the primary meaning of the term, from which other uses derive. Specifically, the term "locality" is used by the United States Board on Geographic Names to refer to the name of a place that is neither a legally incorporated or defined entity (like a township or city), nor a specific geographical feature such as a river or mountain. [citation needed]

So, I am thinking about language for the template and for the Schools Project something like this: "It has been suggested that this school-related article be merged to the appropriate article on the place where it is located (city, town, township, county, etc.) or on the school district, division, agency, parish, diocese or other organization that controls it." Virginia has "school divisions" rather than "districts," with elected boards but no power to levy taxes. Catholic schools, which make up the largest group of non-public schools in the U.S., are frequently associated with their diocese, rather than their parish, while I think that may not be true of church-related schools in England and elsewhere. This list can not be exhaustive, but it should certainly be more than "locality."

I think that specific templates for major English-speaking countries and other countries with large numbers of school articles might be a good idea, but I'm not up to making them. Since the variations have to addess both usage and local administrative differences, it would be a difficult task. In the meantime, it seems to me that the use of the word "or," as in "locality or schoold district" is sufficient to indicate that there is more than one reasonable option without creating a U.S.-centric constraint on British English speakers.

Although I disagree with some of your school-related posts, it has seemed to me that you were trying to move us toward a workable concensus. It has also seemed to me that that your comments regarding the U.S. v. The World are not as helpful.--Hjal 19:16, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

You also deleted the documentation that User:Quarl had included, with no explanation.--Hjal 19:18, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

I have heard of Archie Williams, but never any reason why it would be controversial to name something after him at drake. sorry. 67.188.30.240 03:39, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sporks

"Why is this page a vandal target?" - because sporks are a cliche of dull Internet humour, and because the article is the top result for a Google search for "spork". Oh well. --McGeddon 19:48, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] AfD's and WP:N

Hi, I thought it would be better to continue this discussion here rather than fill up the NPWatcher talk page.

I have to commend you on your use of one of Cicero's classic oratorical techniques, although it is somewhat weasley to say things along the lines of "If I didn't have to assume good faith, I'd have these nasty things to say about another editor."

As for WP:N, perhaps I am not understanding you, but I can't find any of the "steps" you are referring to. Can you help me out in that regard?

In the meantime, I must point out that no amount of cleanup will confer notability upon a nonnotable subject. Similarly, we cannot assume that somebody will come along later, find something notable about a subject and add attributed statements backing it up.

Thanks.

--Butseriouslyfolks 07:45, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

From WP:N#Merging

A topic can fail to satisfy the criteria because, though it may be found in published works that are not simple directories and that are from sources that are independent of the subject, it is mentioned trivially rather than being an in-depth subject of the works. Information which is given only superficial treatment or which is tangentially mentioned in discussions surrounding the actual focus of a work, is not sufficient to build a full, sourced encyclopedia article that stands independent of the main subject.

One common recommendation across all notability guidelines is not to nominate articles on such subjects for deletion but to rename, refactor, or merge them into articles with broader scopes, or into the articles that discuss the main subject, which may be created if they do not already exist.4

Note 4: Some examples:... Wikipedia:Notability (schools) recommends that individual articles on schools where there are no non-trivial published works from sources other than the school itself be merged into articles on the towns or regions where schools are located, or into articles on the school districts, education authorities, or other umbrella school organizations as appropriate.

Wikipedia:Schools is currently inactive, but that note remains as one of the few bits of actual consensus reached in the discussions there. Schools articles are also nominated for deltion when what they need is cleanup or citations, but, again, the nominators usually do not post those tags or make any efforts to improve the articles themselves.

BTW, I didn't like rhetoric and dropped it after a few weeks. I don't remember seeing you comment in other AfDs, so I don't actually have an opinion of you, just of the program you are using to outdraw the other patrollers. However, no impartial reader could spend time at AfD without noting that many (not all) of the editors voting for deletion are particularly nasty, clearly violating Civil and Bite. Of course, that same reader would also note that many of the editors voting to keep are immature and shrill, also to the point of violating Civil.--Hjal 16:33, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

OK, I see. There may have been consensus for that at the time, but I'm fairly certain there is not currently. There is a group of active inclusionist editors that have taken the position that all high schools are inherently notable and entitled to articles at WP. There is another group of deletionist editors, which I suppose I have fallen in with, that believe that WP:N requires that notability be properly demonstrated on an article-by-article basis, even when dealing with schools. (The members of the latter group have differing opinions on what sort of notability is required. Is one state sports championship sufficient? Must there be press coverage from outside of the school's area? Do notable alumni make a school notable?) While I believe most of the deletionists would be satisfied with merges, I fear this would upset many of the inclusionists.

Part of the problem is that there's no AfM process that I'm aware of. You can add merge proposal templates to these articles, but they're liable to be removed by editors who don't agree, and there's no timeframe or standardized process for decision making, so you have to follow up on every one after a reasonable amount of time. For these reasons, it is a lot less time consuming to propose deletion. Many of the AfD's are closed as "merge", so the same end is reached.

And yes, you are correct, there is a lot of incivility on both sides. I have taken steps to try to cool things down, and it seems a little better at the moment. Hopefully, somebody will do us all a favor and forge some kind of consensus on a new WP:SCHOOL guideline. It would save many people time and energy. Until then, it's a standoff.

--Butseriouslyfolks 20:38, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Schools

Please see the talk page, I have made a proposal which I feel may benefit the project. Your feedback is appreciated. --sunstar net^talk 09:32, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

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