Talk:History of the term Vlach

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Source of the Volcae/Volk link:

The term Volcae is simply the German Volk "folk."

The Classical Gazetteer by William Hazlitt (1851) bogdan ʤjuʃkə | ^Talk 18:25, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

Though it should be noted that the book is from 1851. Nineteenth-century works often have etymologies that are no longer accepted. A newer work should be referenced for comparison. Alexander 007 20:29, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

I know that, however, I couldn't find another etymology. Also the Wikipedia article on Volcae uses this etymology. bogdan ʤjuʃkə | ^Talk 21:28, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

Actually, our Volcae article is taken directly from Hazlitt. Also, Celt article explains it as "Falcons". bogdan ʤjuʃkə | ^Talk 21:33, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

There are too many "unknown quantities" in this equation:

Germanic folk/volk: unknown etymology/origin

the word falcon is: of disputed etymology

the ethnonym Volcae itself is: of unknown etymology.

Falcon has two conflicting etymologies: that it is from Germanic, from PIE *pel, 'pale, grey'; or that it is from Late Latin, related to Latin falx, 'sickle'---and Latin falx is of unknown etymology. If 'falcon' is from *pel, then Gaulish Volcae must have been an exonym, because I don't think Celtic changes PIE 'p' to 'f', as Germanic does (then, there is still the extra issue of why 'f' -->'v'). These etymologies are all explaining one unknown with another.

[1] presents the view that Vlach is derived from Volcae (by way of Germanic, then Slavic), but Volcae itself is not explained (see Welsh entry on that site). Www.etymonline is often rather up-to-date, so the Volcae<-->Vlach connection is probably still considered.

I just find this kind of funny: Vlach derives from Volcae (which is of unknown origin), and Volcae may be related to German 'volk' (which is of unknown origin) or to 'falcon' (which is of unknown origin), and 'falcon' may be related to Latin 'falx' (which is of unknown origin).

One might also propose a connection to Latin volcanus---which is also of unknown origin.

This can be extended further: some connect Germanic 'volk' to Latin populus (which is of unknown origin/etymology). 007 23:08, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

[edit] move?

the title of this article is not wholly accurate, since it discusses the exact meaning of Vlach in Slavic languages, rather than its etymology. Could this not be included in the Vlach article? And the actual etymology part applies to Welsh, Wallis etc. just as much, and I suggest it is moved either to Volcae or to Walha (which at the moment is a redirect). dab (ᛏ) 14:13, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps this article could be retitled History of the term Vlach, or Origin of the term Vlach (which originates from Germanic). I also see a difference between the Origin of the term and the ultimate etymology of the term: the origin of the term is known (from Proto-Germanic, etc.), but the ultimate etymology is unclear, as it involves the question of the unclear etymology of Volcae, et cetera. 007 17:36, 6 May 2005 (UTC)

Why do we need a "history" article? Why cannot the term's history be treated on Vlach? It's not like that article is over long. Once it hits 32k, you can still export a specialized hisory article. The history of Vlach is Volcae. The *ultimate* etymology is unclear, but that's a question of Volcae, not of Vlach. dab (ᛏ) 10:25, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

It seems okay to me if all the information in Etymology of Vlach is incorporated into Vlach, so I add my vote to a merge unless someone comes along with a counterargument that is a good one. But I don't know who is going to undertake the merge. 007 21:42, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

I still propose a merge, into an article where all the disparate explanations of words from *Walha are explained. Maybe at Walha. As it is, we repeat the same thing on about ten different articles. If nobody objects I'm going to do that at some point in the future... dab (ᛏ) 14:37, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

I changed the title of the article to emphasize its purpose and justify a separate article. It covers a different subject now, not just the etymology but also the history of the term as it branched off from its etymon and acquired a more specific meaning. Alexander 007 07:51, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wlach in Russian

I think Russian "lekh" - "lyakh" - pejirative for "Polish" is also related to "[W]lach".

I think it is not. This term (same sound as in Russian - "lech") is used also in Czech and Polish language. Its very old word for Poles, older than migration of Vlachs from Balkan to this part of Europe. It is used in various myths about Slavic roots (ie. about forefather Czech and his brother Lech, forefather of Poles) Lech,_founder_of_Poland Lechia

[edit] Italy in Hungarian

The name of Italy in Hungarian should be mentioned.--Error 01:19, 28 July 2005 (UTC)