Talk:History of the kilt
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Contents |
[edit] North American Revival of the Kilt
It was President Woodrow Wilson, the son of a Scots-Irish Presbyterian minister, said: "Every line in America's history is a line coloured by Scottish blood." In keeping with his sentiments, many recognize North American (U.S. and Canadian) history and the Colonial activity of Britain in the 1600's were directly influenced by a chain of events that transpired in Britain, predating the English Civil War (1642-1651). The obvious diasporal link between Britain and it's many Colonies gives the citizen's of Canada, the U.S., Australia, New Zealand and other previous Colonies a lirect link to a common history and heritage, regardless of their particular race or bloodline. The Tartan Day [1] Resolution[2], passed by the U.S. Congress in 1998 outlines the facts and details relating to U.S. history being intertwined with Scot's history. Many Americans without direct Scottish ancestry have taken to wearing non-tartan casual kilts as well as traditional kilts sportng appropriate district tartans; The
American National Tartan [3], the Canadian National Tartan [4] or a state[5]/provincial[6], club or military service tartan (U.S. Military Tartans [7]). Many see this as a way of celebrating our common Scots heritage.
[edit] Comment
The above was taken from the kilt article. It may properly belong under History of the kilt. However, it needs to be sourced and it seems more about general Scottish/Celtic cultural growth and not so specifically about the kilt. Also, about the section header: if there has been a revival, doesn't that mean there was a previous 'vival'? When was the vival?
I do suspect there has been some growth of interest in the kilt in recent years, but shouldn't this be supportable with industry statistics on sales, eh? JFPerry 13:49, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Hi!
I just LO-O-OVE this ARTICLE! Bye, y'all! Wumbo 3:29, 15 July 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Thomas Rawlinson
Excuse me, but could some material from the Thomas Rawlinson (industrialist) article be incorporated into this article, please! It would really help me out. Thanks! Skrooball 19:02, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
- The accuracy of that article has been disputed (by two different people). Both of the references cited in the external links section of the Rawlinson article flat out contradict the thesis of the entire Rawlinson article. See the talk page of that article. JFPerry 20:15, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] comment
The article says "Scottish troops last wore kilts in combat during WWI. In particular, the ferocious tactics of the Royal Highland Regiment led to their acquiring the nickname "Ladies from Hell" from the German troops that faced them in the trenches." but there are photographic sources such as photo (which shows Scottish POWs in 1940) wearing kilts at least into early WWII.
[edit] comment
What evidence is there that the Kilt or the Plaid was an "ancient" item of clothing? I mean actual historical evidence? As far as I'm aware the plaid is actually a relatively modern invention of the 16th century.
this article does not in anyway mention the irish. kilts are just as irish as they are scottish, and frankly i am sick of the implication that its a wholly scottish garment. furthormore the article doesn't go nearly far enough back. it makes insufficient mention of any related garments before the great kilt. trews and so called saffron shirts are to my understanding both possible predecessors. also just to sound as biased as humanly possible, most sources i've run across point to an irish origin for the kilt,
I'm afraid I must strongly disagree with the idea that kilts are as Irish as they are scottish. The simple fact is that they are not and never have been. Here in Ireland where I live the kilt is seen as a Scottish item of clothing. It is only worn by pipe bands and more recently at weddings.
There is no historical evidence of the kilt being worn in Ireland before the end of the 19th century, and even then it was limited to mainly boys Irish Dancing costumes and some Catholic Private schools, as a symbol of pan-celticsm. It has been all but abandoned in Irish Dancing, thanks largely to Riverdance.
The historical garment of Ireland is the Léine which was basically a long shirt or tunic sometimes worn with a belt around the waste. It in no way resembled or is connected to the kilt we know today.
The notion that kilts are Irish seems to originate with the Irish-Americans keen to have an outward symbol of their celtic origins. Nothing wrong with this and a good choice, unfortunately it seems to have sprung a need for Irish-Americans to concoct a mythology around it's "ancient origins" in order to justify it's wearing. Where as here in Ireland we know it's not really anything to do with us but wear it mostly for fun at weddings and even at that very rarely.
I attended a wedding in Mayo two years ago at Ballintubber Abbey to be precise. The bride was a born and bred Mayo woman the groom an Irish-American from upstate New York. On the bride's (i.e Irish) side of the church there was not one kilt amongst the guests or family, on the American side all the men wore kilts !. At the reception afterwards the American's were more than surprised to find out that no one wore kilts in Ireland, apart from pipers.
The kilt as we know it today originated in the Scottish Highlands of the 16th century, was modified to what we know now in the 18th Century, took off as the national dress of Scotland after 1822 and George IV's visit and got the British establishment seal of approval in Victorian Britain.
In the islands of Britain and Ireland it has been adopted in the late 20th century amongst other celtic nations as a pan celtic symbol, but everyone is aware that it's history is firmly rooted in the Scottish Highlands.
You'll have to get over it my friend can't change reality to suit romantic notions.
EddieLu 15:58, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
- I don't know about the timing on this. Hanging on a wall in an Irish pub near where I live (Santa Cruz, California, but owned by Irish immigrants) there's a photo labeled as that of an Irish clan chieftain, the O'Houlighan, taken early in the 20th century. He's wearing a kilt. It may have been a symbol of pan-Celticism as you say, but if so it was adopted as such rather earlier than you're saying.
- FWIW, I've never seen Irish dancers wearing kilts at any time. TCC (talk) (contribs) 20:39, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
Hi a careful reading of my comment and you would have noticed my line "There is no historical evidence of the kilt being worn in Ireland before the end of the 19th century". So the photo in your local pub fits in perfectly with my point. There was a bit of a pan celtic revival at the turn of the 19th/20th centuries here in Ireland. The saffron kilt was adopted as a symbol by some as a resistance to British rule, it wasn't widespread but was taken up by some private Catholic Schools, I believe the one that Padraig Pearse taught is one such, was used as a boys Irish Dancing costume, and did occasionally appear at political meetings. Once things got serious after 1916 the Irish had other things to worry about. The only notable Irish lord or chieftain that I have heard of wearing a kilt in the early 20thc was Sir Shane Leslie 3rd Baronet of Castle Leslie in Monaghan, at the time he was considered quite eccentric (indeed his son Jack Leslie who is 90 is famous for being an ardent clubber as in House/Acid music) Sir Shane was a fervent Nationalist and stood as a Nationalist candidate in 1910, his kilt wearing was the outward sign of his celtic nationalism. Anyway next time your in the pub have a pint for me and I'll do the same for you in Ireland, cheers. EddieLu 15:36, 18 January 2007 (UTC) check out the following [8] EddieLu 11:30, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
