Talk:History of the Jews in Morocco

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Judaism Portal History of the Jews in Morocco is part of WikiProject Judaism, a project to improve all articles related to Judaism. If you would like to help improve this and other articles related to the subject, consider joining the project. All interested editors are welcome. This template adds articles to Category:WikiProject Judaism articles.

Project Judaism To-do: edit purge watch Here are some tasks you can do: Requests: Jewish and Biblical Units of Measurement or some such name, to include material of Ancient Hebrew units of measurement but also Talmudic units and use in Halacha (a la the Hebrew Wikipedia article he:מידות ומשקלות תורניים) Collaboration of the week The current Orthodox Rabbinical Biography Collaboration of the Week is Rabbi Chaim Michael Dov Weissmandl. The current Judaism Collaboration of the Week is Zealotry. Translate Please note that in many instances, projects related to Torah study proceed much faster in Hebrew than in English. Mikraot Gedolot (rabbinic bible) at Wikisource in English (sample) and Hebrew (sample). Mishnah at Wikisource - Hebrew text with translation and commentary; there is also a Hebrew version. Shulchan Aruch at Wikisource - Hebrew text with English translation New projects Mikraot Gedolot Project at Hebrew Wikisource Megillot Mikraot Gedolot Eikhah Copyedit: see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism#Rival Biblical views Cleanup: Jewish mythology - needs to be rewritten to be inline with our other mythology articles. Expand: Wikiversity: School of Jewish Studies. Part of the new open content university, Wikiversity. Stubs: Category:Judaism stubs, Category:Tanakh stubs Update: Portal:Judaism is WikiProject Judaism's frequently updated portal. You can help make this the best portal on Wikipedia. Look at the talk page to see how you can help.

	Morocco Portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Morocco, an attempt to build a comprehensive and detailed guide to Morocco on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please join the project.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.

Contents 1 Deletion of factual material / geographic location of Morocco 2 Berber jewess 3 Very biased article 4 Jews & Moors 5 Citiation problems? 6 Sephardim and Mizrahim 7 Language spoken

[edit] Deletion of factual material / geographic location of Morocco

Why has the category, Jews of West Africa, deleted? Is not Morocco part of West Africa? This seems cut and dry NPOV. Dogru144 18:08, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Berber jewess

Last edits by 84.109.96.88 look a bit POV and w/o any source. The use of the term heroic is certainly a POV one. The other thing is that the additions lack any reference or sources like "the adopted arab son who btrayed her..." I'll fix that and wait for any sources to revert it back as per 84.109.96.88 edits -- Svest 21:17, 25 October 2005 (UTC) ^{Wiki me up ®}

There seems to be confusion on how she died. This page [1] (google translation [2]) in French says she was decapitated. This page [3] in Spanish says she died next to a well. This article [4] says she committed suicide by throwing herself into a well. The jewish encyclopedia says she fell near a well [5] indicating she was murdered quite possibly by decapitation. Arniep 22:37, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

This is what I meant Arniep. As long as there are many versions, than we should include them all (with sources) and not base only on one version. If you see, the whole article is a mirror of the Jewish Encyclopedia on the topic. Many things should be reviewed in the article. Hope I had time for that. Cheers -- Svest 19:20, 26 October 2005 (UTC) ^{Wiki me up ®}

[edit] Very biased article

I thank you for the article, but I think it is very biased and even might be ideologically-motivated.

If the Jews of Morocco were so badly treated in the whole moroccan history, how come they lived there until the mid 20th century ??

Also saying that Moroccan citizens of jewish obedience are badly treated now in Morocco is very biased. There are some racists like everywhere but they are highly respected by the majority.

The article cited André Azoulay but forgot to tell about Abraham Serfaty and his role in fighting for a democratic Morocco.

Please feel free to improve the article, especially if you provide sources, since it sounds like you have a lot to add. As a note, much of this article was taken from the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia, which I don't think is particularly ideologically motivated, as it predated Israel by a half century, but obviously the modern info is from other sources. You may also want to sign your comments with ~~~~ --Goodoldpolonius2 18:25, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

I have a feeling that, as this article was lifted from the Jewish Encyclopedia, when it said Jews were "now" badly treated this meant 1901. At present I think that it (and Tunisia) are about the most user-friendly Arab countries for Jews to live in; and the section on current history is quite consistent with this.

The article mentions the arrival of Spanish exiles after 1492, but says nothing about the continued existence of the "Guerush Castilia", meaning the Spanish-speaking communities of Tangier, Tetuan etc. that remained quite separate from Arabic-speaking Moroccan Jewry in many ways. There should also be some mention of current Moroccan Jewish communities round the world.--Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) 14:44, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Much of the article has good information but rather poorly and POV phrased, e.g with respect to Ministers - queer off-handed dismissal of the importance of Jewish ministers as merely there to extort money and subject to dismissal at the Sultan's whim. Of course that's true - true of any minister of the period, regardless of the said minister's religion. collounsbury 22:21, 17 February 2007 (UTC).

I agree. I'll try to do my best once i'd have enough time. I've just found very interesting information about Jewish art in Morocco which is also missing. -- Szvest 14:24, 13 October 2006 (UTC) ^{Wiki me up ®}

[edit] Jews & Moors

I think there should be some refernce material to the Jewish peoples during Moorish rule. It seems a bit unrealistic that the Jewish people were treated severely. Espicially when there is historic evidence showing the opposite. I think there should e additional evidence showing the positive as well as the negative.--Gnosis 02:40, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Some one wrote "the intolerent almohads". This is not objective. Even if they are vey hostile to the jews, they cannot be named like as that. They would be called "anti-jews". Because the almohads were very open-minded to give fruits like as averroes. I would also like to add that that i'm tired of reading articles where there has been complained about the anti-judaism; Were is the pro-judaism? Where are the reason of that result [Collaboration with the enemies and their orientation to Israel while living in another country, i suppose]? The article is also not well structured, i find Read3r 13:47, 22 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Citiation problems?

Please forgive my ignorance if that is the source of my confusion, but it seems to me that many of the citations given in this article are not complete, let alone verifiable. For example, consider citation number 4:

Marcus Fischer, l.c. pp. 32 et seq.

What, exactly, is l.c.? Again, it's been a while since I've had to include a formal citation, but it seems to me that this example (and many if not most others in this artical) lacks critical information to qualify as verifiable. Unsigned comment by User:67.155.210.46

The article needs a major rewrite. It was a 100% copy and paste of this article in the Jewish encyclopedia. It is somehow 90% now!

Good question. I think of 2 things. It may mean Library of Congress or something related to Library of Congress Classification. According to Jean Gray Hargrove LC Classification was originally designed to sort books at the Library of Congress and developed specifically with reference to the published literature in each subject area in that collection. Today it is used widely to organize collections in American academic and research libraries. I also think of "letter cover"!!! Cheers -- Szvest 20:06, 14 July 2006 (UTC) ^{Wiki me up™}

"l.c." is short for "loc. cit." or "loco citato". It means "the same passage as the previous citation". (Compare "op. cit.", meaning "the same book as the previous citation".) It has nothing to do with "Library of Congress". --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) 09:23, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks Sir Myles! I thought "idem/ibidem/id." was used for that purpose instead. -- Szvest 14:11, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

The difference is that "ibid" occurs on its own (in other words it refers to exactly the same passage) while "loc. cit." is followed by a page or paragraph number, and refers to another identified place within the same overall passage. Hope this helps. --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) 22:31, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sephardim and Mizrahim

Hello, I have read claims that in Morocco, antisemitic riots in the late fourties and fifties targeted mainly Sephardim, while the overall attitude towards Mizrahim remained comparatively relaxed. Is that a hoax or is there any serious reality behind this story? (I would be thankful about a mail, as I don't regularly check my wikipedia account). Thank you.Jakob Stevo 03:23, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Language spoken

Maybe a reference should be made to Haketiya. This Spanish-based dialect was spoken in Tangiers and Tetouan. Not to be confused with Ladino, another Spanish-based dialect, but spoken by Jews living in Turkey, Bulgaria and Greece. Judeo-Spanish is a term that encompasses both dialects, but they're actually quite different, although almost wholly intercomprehensible with each other and, to a somewhat lesser degree (but not much lesser) with Standard Spanish. --Abenyosef 21:46, 9 February 2007 (UTC)