Talk:History of corsets

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[edit] Iron Corsets and Victorian Era

The item on Iron Corsets gives the dates of useage as 1500s to 1700s, and then says that it is a Victorian Era style. The Victorian Era is so named for the reing of Queen Victoria, which began in 1819. This portion is clearly factually inaccurate because of this.

I am unfamiliar beyond that with the Iron Corset. However, I am changing "Victorian Era" to "Tudor Era", which matches the dates posted. I assume that the original writer of the statement actually meant Elizabethan Era, which is often substituted for Tudor Era, though Elizabeth was of course only one in a line of Tudor rulers. --unsigned comment by Mathlaura13:01, 17 August 2005

I don't think it's even mentioned in the current version of the article, but for the record, the iron or steel corset seems to have been mainly an early 17th-century thing... Churchh 18:12, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] This article is seriously sub-standard

I haven't been policing this article and Haabet has had a free hand with it, enriching it with his inimitable fractured English, weird illustrations, and dour view of corsets. I'm completely over-burdened at the moment, so all I can say is, I protest. Zora 00:37, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

I will move it to this page. Do you acceptance that?

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Corset:History Haabet 09:39, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Isn't there any quality control there? You know it's not a real book, Haabet. Couldn't you just put it up on your personal website? Zora 10:16, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

I have make this sub-standard because I hope you would make it better. But this subject are not suited to wikipedia.
Any body can delete my mistakes on my personal website.Haabet 12:59, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Deleting some of the worst gibberish

The article is still a mess, but I deleted some of the strangest prose and most disturbing pictures. Zora 08:11, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Now I've corrected some of the worst errors. It still could use some better pictures (esp. early periods), something more about post-1910s... Has it occurred to anyone that the "Overview" contains almost more information than each of the sub-chapters? If I had the nerve right now, I'd shorten the overview a bit more and flesh out the chapters. Madame
The overview was originally mostly taken over from "Tightlacing" as a bandaid to paper over some of the problems created by Haabet, but it contains some good material... Churchh 12:53, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
Added and swapped in some new Victorian pics -- maybe the previous pruning was a little too drastic there. Churchh 15:30, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Changing template

The page still needs some cleanup, but I don't really think it's in desperate need of "expert attention" like it used to be... Churchh 12:55, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Major rewrite and reorg

OK, I worked this page over. It still needs more pictures, links, and info, but at least it's respectable now, and a good framework for any further work. Haabet, hands off, PLEASE. Zora 08:02, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

The straight-front corset, also known as the swan-bill corset and the S-bend corset, was worn from ca. 1900 to the early 1910s. Its name is derived from the very rigid, straight busk inserted in the center front of the corset. This corset forced the torso forward and made the hips protrude.
The straight-front corset was in use from 1875, but first in fashion i year 1900 by a fashion wave which surprise the industry.
I have look and hunt after a old image of that very rigid, straight busk from this era, but I can only get modern drawings.
But I have straight-front corset images, completely without busk.
I think that bush is a fetishi-myth or a misunderstand.missehund vovkat Haabet 09:19, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
I was under the impression (from the Museum of Costume in Bath, although I was there a few years ago and might be wrong; which is why I'm posting it here instead of editing the article) that the S-bend corsets began as 'health corsets' that were shaped to improve breathing. It was quickly discovered that they could be tight-laced into the characteristic S-bend. Does anyone else know about this? --Principessa 15:37, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
The word S-bend is use of many corsets. But the straight front corset was a health corset, but nearly all corsets was health corsets! ;-)

As the straight front corset was a health corset is well-documented in many patents and in this French source. http://fr.wikisource.org/wiki/Le_corset%3B_%C3%A9tude_physiologique_et_pratique_1900:129 And in english: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:LIVRE_D%27OR_DE_FINCAILLES_ET_DU_MARIAGEpage259a.jpg in German: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:GutesKorsettSchlechtesKorsett2.gif

straight front corset is constantly in use. if you will have more I can get that.Håbet 20:37, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Disputed:

  1. . 'Corseted ballet dress, 1855 are stays, not corsets. (the stays was in use from about 1500 to about 1910),
  2. . The dominant behind disappear in 1909, because the corset go down of the thighs, as the hip had need to tip.
  3. . Gaches-Sarraute say as the Edwardian corset was a Victorian pregnancy corset. And a patent say as that corset was from 1875.
  4. Typical 1869 corset, that was a news in 1869, that corset was different from the corsets before.
  5. After about 1908, the small corseted waist started to fall out of fashion. All informations say as the waist was tight to about 1911 and been higher and fall out of fashion in 1919. Håbet 07:37, 13 April 2006 (UTC)


Haabet, the word "corset" began to be commonly used in the English language before the year 1855. And as far as I can figure out, you seem to think that the dancers' colored bodice thingies are the corsets themselves, but they're not -- they're prettified and citified ballet-house versions of continental European peasant garments; the actual corsets would be UNDER their outer clothes. Churchh 08:59, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
The girls use a girls type of this stay: Image:PL_IIIcut.gif Håbet 13:30, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
Haabet, plase don't insert your comments in the middle of mine, so people can't tell which is which. In any case, Image:PL_IIIcut.gif depicts a classic mid-18th century type of "stays" worn underneath the clothes, which has nothing whatsoever to do with the pseudo-peasanty outergarments worn by the 1855 ballet dancers. Churchh 16:11, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
4 - If you don't like the word "typical", then write "newly fashionable", but I don't see that it makes much difference.
The problems is the long periode by many various corsets. Håbet 13:30, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I really have no idea what that's supposed to mean. The words are English, but they don't add up to a sentence. Churchh 16:11, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
5 - Obviously, many women continued to lace up well into the 1910's (or even beyond), but I've seen elsewhere (in an offline fashion history book) the assertion that 1908 was the first year that there were incipient signs that the ice was beginning to crack. Churchh 08:59, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I have a patent which raise the chest without tighten the waist. But it is from 1909 and a other from 1911. Håbet 13:30, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
That's nice -- you really shouldn't rely so much on patents, since they're attempted innovations (many unsuccessful), and don't necessarily give you a good idea of what's TYPICAL during a certain time-period. Churchh 16:11, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
But the problems is complex. The tight corset was a part of the ball-dress, in the ball the girl have a short contact by few boys. In that few minutes she had need of a get a man, or ende as spinster. And the familie have need to support the spinsters. The familie have a interest as pay as the girl get a narrow waist, and a big expensive dress. But by the armament to WW1 all can get a unskilled job. The women's magazines writed about education. But all woman in Denmark used girdles and corslets i 1960, then the tights(panty hose) arrived, as the corset was not lost but change in the fabric, in the 1920s. In 1909 been the corset to long as woman be able to shit, but first in 1913 the corset get a hatch to shit. What do the woman in the era from 1909 to 1913?Håbet 13:30, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
I have no idea how the above semi-disturbed rambling ruminations have much to do with the editing of the article page... Churchh 16:11, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The edits I just made

Okay, I just removed Image:Ballet_1855.jpg (since it apparently was giving people the idea that the pseudo-peasantish colored outer bodice thingies the dancers were wearing were the actual corsets, which they in fact weren't); I removed the word "typical" from the 1869 corset image description; and I added the word "slowly" to corsets beginning to fall out of favor, since obviously most women didn't make any sudden drastic changes to their habitual practices during the year 1908 itself.

I then changed the "disputed" tag to a section-cleanup on the Edwardian section, since that's where the remaining issues (whose accuracy I don't know how to evaluate) seem to be. I also took Image:Coronet Corset Co.gif out of the gallery, since this image nicely sums up the Victorian/Edwardian change, and it doesn't really communicate very effectively at a maximum pixel dimension of 120 pixels...

This should resolve most issues. I know absolutely nothing about Gaches-Sarraute, so you're going to have to debate that with somebody else. Obviously, the Victorian section now needs a few additional pics, but Haabet, please don't try to add images of internal organs being squished (which are not really too relevant for this page), or strikingly innovative patent applications (for the reasons I outlined above) -- especially not crudely colorized patent illustrations (which are often inadvertently humorous). Churchh 16:30, 13 April 2006 (UTC)



hello. not sure how all this thing works, but it's a bit misleading to say corsets are worn only by fetishists re-enactors and for back support. I'm into none of these things, and I tightlace purely because I love the shape I get from doing so. I'm far from alone in this.

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