Talk:History of Miami, Florida

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Contents

[edit] Lighthouse picture

Should that lighthouse picture be on the article page twice? I didn't delete it in case I was missing something, but they look like a duplication to me. Maybe its supposed to be one of those spot the difference puzzles... :) Mammal4 13:46, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Samuel Touchett plantation

Samuel Touchett received a land grant from the British government of 20,000 acres in the area of Miami in 1766. The grant was surveyed by Bernard Romans in 1772. Touchett was having financial problems by then and never attempted to develop the land grant. So, is this too minor a point to add to the article? -- Dalbury(Talk) 22:07, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

Add it, It would be even better with a source also. Thanks --Jaranda wat's sup 22:11, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Featured Article?

I just nominated this for featured article status, I think its ready. Thanks --Jaranda wat's sup 22:39, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Possible copyvio problem.

In the Twentieth Century section I found the following two sentences;

At the time, Miami's hurricane was considered the country's greatest natural disaster since the San Francisco earthquake and fire of 1906. Today, the Category 4 storm ranks among twentieth-century United State hurricanes as the 12th deadliest in history.

to be word-for-word from the cited source, [1], which has;

At the time, Miami's hurricane was considered the country's greatest natural disaster since the San Francisco earthquake and fire of 1906. Today the Category 4 storm ranks among 20th-century U.S. hurricanes as the 12th strongest and 12th deadliest.

I'll work on rewording the article, but we need to take a closer look at everything in the article. -- Dalbury(Talk) 15:39, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing it, I found that in that article and just added that in there with the source where I got that from, my mistake, I rewrote alot from what I got in sources though so no problem. Thanks --Jaranda wat's sup 18:42, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

A couple of sentences isn't necessarily a problem, but I'm uncomfortable with even one sentence copied over (not that I haven't done so). -- Dalbury(Talk) 19:24, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tequesta

I went ahead and pulled the bit about the Tequesta building houses from cypress logs. The sources I've worked from for Tequesta say that there is no information available about Tequesta housing. -- Dalbury(Talk) 01:20, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

I got that source from the Arva Moore Parks book I think --Jaranda wat's sup 01:22, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

In "Tebeau, Charlton W. 1968. Man in the Everglades. University of Miami Press", I find, "No description of Tequesta houses is available except those on Matecumbe Key described by Bernard Romans, a surveyor for the British government, who wrote ...we see the remains of some savage habitations, built, or rather piled up of stones; these were the last refuges of the Caloosa [Tequesta] nation; ... These may actually have been a unique instance of the use of stone." I would also note that the Tequesta apparantly lived along the shore of Biscayne Bay and on the rivers and creeks draining into the bay. I suspect they were more likely to use pine or hardwoods from the coastal hammocks than cypress for any construction. Charleton Tebeau was a historian at the University of Miami, so I consider his work pretty reliable. -- Dalbury(Talk) 01:45, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
I removed it. AndyZ 01:50, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
And I thought I had. An edit conflict, I guess. -- Dalbury(Talk) 01:53, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Very strange paragraph

I removed the following paragraph because it implies nothing happened between 1513 and Julia Tuttle's arrival:

The Europeans first reached the Miami region in 1513. Following that, settlement gradually occurred, instigated by Julia Tuttle's negotiations with railroad magnate Henry Flagler. By 1896 Miami had become a city.

-- Dalbury(Talk) 02:14, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Washington had no say

I've removed the sentence, "Washington D.C. approved a few weeks later by telegram." Washington had no say in the establishment of municipalities in a state. Does this perhaps refer to State of Florida approval? -- Dalbury(Talk) 02:21, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removed 'child sacrifice' report for Tequestas

The specific incident on which this information was based is reported differently in another source. As I don't have at hand the source I used to first add this information to the Tequesta article, I'm pulling it out until I can sort through the conflicting stories in the sources. -- Dalbury(Talk) 02:59, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Congrats

Congratulations on getting this article to FA status! Deckiller 02:51, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Congrats from me too! --Siva1979Talk to me 18:11, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] White?

I switched the word White to Anglo-Saxons on the paragraph "Early white settlement", because Spanish people are Mediterranean Europeans, and these are White people. If this article is going to be a Today's featured article on May 23 2006, I would recommend serious revising. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.154.242.129 (talk • contribs).

Not all whites are Anglo-Saxon in origin. -- SmthManly / ManlyTalk / ManlyContribs 01:46, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

That is obvious!! But the word white is inappropriate. It could be changed to "first non-Spanish settlement". As I said before, Spanish people, Iberian people, Mediterranean people are white. Spaniards, Portuguese, Italian and Southern French! The word should be changed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 82.154.242.129 (talk • contribs).

Then change it to that and not Anglo Saxon, because both terms and thus incorrect. -- SmthManly / ManlyTalk / ManlyContribs 21:01, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Underwhelming and Embarrassing.

The recent history summaries at the end of this article leave much to be desired.

For example, A _SINGLE_ line dedicated to Hurricane Andrew, yet _Multiple Lines_ for Elian Gonzalez and Arthur Teele........... (?) So that's all Miami was about in the 1990s to 2006, hunh? :|

I should be thankful there wasn't more badly coapted mishmash in this thing!


Wiki, you have more time on your collective hands and keyboards than I do, try better next time. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.34.98.154 (talk • contribs) 21:54, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ball of Wax?

As far as I know, the eighth (spelled as so) ancient wonder of the world doesn't exist. This seems a bit...opinionated? If not...a practical joke? lol funny? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Kupo6x (talk • contribs) 10:26, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

It was vandalism by some idiot thanks 64.12.116.135 16:56, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism

I've reverted some vandalism by 169.199.43.56 to the version by Zahid Abdassabur. I post this here because I didn't in thge edit summary - sorry :( Martinp23 16:55, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Written by child...

"By the early 1940s, Miami was recovering from the Great Depression, but then World War II started. Many of the cities in Florida were heavily affected by the war and went into financial ruin, but Miami remained relatively unaffected. Early in the war, German U-boats attacked several American ships."

This is awfully written and I cannot believe this was a featured article. It lacks historical narrative which most of the best articles have; it lacks the neutral eloquence necessary to encyclopaedic writing, and it sounds like a six grade book report. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.184.151.157 (talk • contribs) 13:52, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Was there an "Other" category?

First off, "After the Second Seminole War ended in 1842, Fitzpatrick’s nephew, William English, re-established the plantation in Miami. He charted the "Village of Miami" on the south bank of the Miami River and sold several plots of land."

This should link the William English (planter), not the Indiana politician. (as was done by Donald Albury on the main Miami page).

Second, "So on July 28, 1896, the City of Miami was incorporated with 444 citizens (243 of whom were identified as white and 181 as black)." 243 + 181 = 424. Were there still 20 resident Seminoles?

Third, these numbers might be off, because if in 1896 there were 444 citizens, and in 1900 there were 1,681 citizens, that would be a > 400% population jump in 3 1/2 years. Since neither of these numbers are cited, I figure maybe one or both is just a bit off.

I thought the voter/population thing had been sourced. As I remember, the sources disagree. Helen Muir's Miami, U.S.A. states that there were 502 voters when the city was incorporated, including 100 registered black voters. I don't have other sources at hand to check against. I think I'll go ahead and use Muir. -- Donald Albury 02:48, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Hmm, but # of voters will be much less than the total population, since women and children will not be included. That would explain much of the difference between the counts 444 (or 502) and 1,681. Thanks for checking that though.--CodeCarpenter 16:13, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Remember that Miami was a boom town, and many men looking for work would have come without families. Note also that Miami's population increased 3 1/4 times to about 5,500 from 1900 to 1910, so the population could have easily doubled in the 4 years from 1896 to 1900. -- Donald Albury 23:23, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge in 'Miami, Florida in the 20th century'

It looks like almost all the text is identical between Miami, Florida in the 20th century and History of Miami, Florida#Twentieth century, so this should involve only a little cleanup and conversion of 'Miami, Florida in the 20th century' to a redirect. -- Donald Albury 00:56, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

Support merge. KillerChihuahua?!? 12:05, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Support merge. There is already details here from the 21st century, and I cannot picture someone accessing this item directly from a search page. As also pointed out in other sections here, there is alot of duplication with the general History page, so that will remove the duplication. Other cities do not have this split by century, so I agree with the merge idea. CodeCarpenter 16:00, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Miami, Florida in the 20th century talk page

I was going to move this to Miami, Florida in the twentieth century, because "twentieth century" is not a proper noun, however, I then wondered why it was not at Miami, Florida in the 20th century, which I think is more typical. And then I wondered what other Miami are we disambiguating? Why not Miami in the 20th century? While the state is required in the titles of city articles (e.g. Miami, Florida), subarticles are not required to have the state, AFAIK, and shouldn't when it's not necessary. Tuf-Kat 18:48, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

  • Sure, moving the article to either of those articles is okay. I created Miami, Florida because take a look at the large list of items under the disambiguation page for Miami. AndyZ 20:23, 29 January 2006 (UTC)
    • Okay, I'll buy that. Tuf-Kat 22:24, 29 January 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Mariel boatlift criminal totals?

I saw that the Mariel reference to Castro cleaning out his jails was removed. Yet, the Mariel Boatlift article again states that this was the case. Over 2400 self-admitted criminals that were deported, 10,000 that were arrested (including over 100 homicides) soon after, and still 800 to 900 that have yet to be accepted back by Castro. So, I would say that this is not a myth, but just a poorly sourced line in the article. We could carry over the sources and text from the boatlift article, but that would lead to duplication. I will leave it to the experts on how this should be done, but complete removal to me seems like overkill and maybe even whitewash. IMO, of course. CodeCarpenter 19:51, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Here is the line that was removed.

Castro used the boatlift as a way of purging his country of criminals and of the mentally ill, as well as further removing possible political dissidents.

That's not in the Mariel Boatlift article, nor is it true. The story was put around in Miami by various people to disparage the new Cubans, and perpetuated by movies such as Scarface. In fact our article details the fact that very few of the refugees were criminals or "mentally ill", and at no point does it (or should it) say that there was a policy to purge Cuba of such people. Because there was no such policy. In fact the boatlift was a disaster for the Cuban government, who hadn't anticipated the scale of the mass movement when they agreed to allow boats to arrive.-- Zleitzen(talk) 00:47, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Picture

Suggested picture addition: Image:Miami lounge 1946.jpg--JEF 00:24, 21 March 2007 (UTC)

Just how old are you? -- Donald Albury 22:19, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
My user page is correct when it gives the grade I am in and the year I was born.--JEF 00:24, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Wait, i'm confused by all this now. -- SmthManly / ManlyTalk / ManlyContribs 00:27, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
Me too. This question should have been asked on my talk page, but I answered it here anyways.--JEF 00:32, 21 March 2007 (UTC)
I asked because you claim to be the creator of a photograph taken in 1946. So, unless you are at least 80 or so, you cannot be the creator of that image. This does raise a problem about who owns the copyright for that image. -- Donald Albury 23:24, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
Of course I did not take the picture, and neither do I claim to have. I found it on the Wikipedia commons. It was uploaded by User:Naarkotix on the commons if you look at the history. Good thing I ran this by on the talk page because now that you point it out, the tag validity is questionable.--JEF 23:32, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
My apologies. I now see that to be the case. Sorry about the misunstanding. -- Donald Albury 23:36, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

That is O.K. . Going back to the tag, I don't see any reason for the person to lie about the only contribution he made to the Wikipedia commons when it has not even been used in an article yet.--JEF 23:39, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

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