Talk:History of Guatemala
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Resource recommendations: Can anyone recommend outside resources (books, journal articles, newspaper articles, films, etc.) that would provide contrasting POVs on the causes and consequences of La Violencia?
[edit] NPOV?
- What specifically do you feel warrants that label? In what ways is it not neutral and in what do you suggest we do to correct that? --Clngre 18:31, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
I can see why the tag was put on as it just describes things from a left wing POV but getting a more fully accurate picture would take a lot of research. Any takers? SqueakBox 19:30, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
- I'd gladly take the time and improve it, if I knew how. I wrote that original segment and I can't see where in particular it's in need of balancing. That isn't to say that it doesn't need to be made more neutral, just that I can't see too well from the 'other side' or whatever. --Clngre 01:28, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
I guess terms like American paranoia, Communist threat, even CIA orchestrated. The whole post operation CIA enquiry also seems like it has been written from an anti American POV, and it is this as the only POV expressed which I imagine is the problem, SqueakBox 01:47, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
- I see what you're saying and I'll set aside some time soon to augment it. I guess one of the problems is that there is no real proverbial 'other side' in this. I mean, there is no real pro-PBSUCCESS side, if that paragraph can be characterized as anti-PBSUCCESS. What sides do exist pretty much agree that it was a mess-up to one degree or another (most of the post-overthrow objectives were not met, the suspicion that the Soviet Union was playing a significant role, that underpinned the entire operation, proved to be unfounded, etc), but one 'side' just thinks that it was an unfortunate mess-up done with the best intentions. I get this characterization from the internally written CIA history of the coup, which discusses how it's something of a source of embarrassment within the agency and how a few still talk about it in a "we did what we were obligated to do under the circumstances" kind of way. In any case, I do think that view is important and one that deserves representation so I'll work it in as soon as I have the time. Thanks a lot for your help and advice--Clngre 03:32, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
I don't see how anyone can label this as a left wing POV. Any real examination of the events lead to the same conclusions. US interests, rather the interests of the United Fruit Company directly caused US interest in Guatemala. Bitter Fruit is an excellent examination of US intervention in Guatemala. I don't understand how the CIA was in any was obligated to do anything in the country. There is no liberal or pro-PBSSUCCESS stance. It was an utter failure.
But there is a pro US's cold war justification camp, whuich I understand is quite strong, and so I don't agree with your assessment, above anon. I am not American so I don't feel able to write expressing that POV, but the lack of it seems obvious to me, and we should strive to include all valid POV's, SqueakBox 17:09, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
- Ok I just made some, maybe too modest, changes to the section that I nevertheless feel are sufficient. But, again, my view of this is limited, so if there is something that can still be improved please let me know. --Clngre 12:41, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Merging content
Joanne Amaral (talk • contribs) has written a series of terribly formatted and horribly named articles, some of which appear to be original research as she draws conclusions about their importance. Please merge the following back into this article, or help to write them in an encyclopedic manner:
- The Guatemalan Revolution: 1944-1954
- Politcs in Post Revolutionary Guatemala
- Guatemala: After the Revolution
- CIA's Role: 'PBSUCCESS'
- The Role of the United States and the CIA
- Guatemalan Indians and Ethnic Conflict
- Disunity in the Guatemalan Church
- Agrarian reform
- Communism and the Guatemalan Revolution
- Juan Jose Arévalo
- University of San Carlos
Thank you. Harro5 01:21, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
- See also separate bibliographies here: Journal Articles and Books and External Links. This is a god-awful mess; this woman has seemingly plagiarised over 50 sources! Harro5 01:24, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
To me these look like copyvios, I propose to make them into redirects here, SqueakBox 01:25, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
- No need to have redirects as no one is likely to search these titles. Maybe just delete all as CSD A8? Harro5 01:28, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
Great job, thanks for fixing my mistakes on the 2 articles she just changed and if she comes back I will remove the text and speedy, SqueakBox 01:47, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
- All the articles reappeared on April 16, 2006. I indefinetely blocked the user, Sidestar (talk • contribs), and am speedy deleting all the articles under CSD G4/A8. Harro5 23:24, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
After receiving a message from Professor Derek Williams at the University of Toronto explaining the nature of Joanne's edits, I replied both to Professor Martin and to Joanne allowing her to resume editing on Wikipedia under conditions including always replying to messages, using talk pages, and most importantly, not posting any new articles until there is community support on this page. Harro5 22:15, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] 21st Century
This section needs to be exapnded further, compared to the Cold War era Guatemala is irrecognizable in just a short few decades. This fact needs to be highlighted further although there is much work to be done.
I dislike that Alfonso Portillo is portrayed in a positive light. On the last few hours that he enjoyed inmunity from prosecution he loaded up a plane full of cash stolen from the funds of the army and flew off to Mexico. He is a fugitive from justice and now lives in Mexico. These facts are well documented in the Guatemalan press.
His government is considered the most currupt in recent history and a complete failure. Organized crime picked up force during this era and now runs rampant. the administraiton did little or nothing to combat Guatemala's extensive problems; not to mention that it left the governemnt completely flat broke.
A link to people of the time are also needed like Efrain Rios Mont, Rogoberta Menchu, and other significant figures.
if you need resources for the expansion of pages on Guatemala might i point you in the direction of:
and especially
www.prensalibre.com
they are both great sources of information, keep extensive archives, are distributed nation-wide, and a harsh on the political class, although they are a little soft on big bisness.
Keep up the good work.
--SvenGodo 07:11, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
