Talk:History of Greece

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History of Greece was the collaboration of the week for the week starting on June 26, 2005. For details on improvements made to the article, see history of past collaborations.

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Contents 1 Question 2 Aegean civilization 3 Medieval Greece/Byzantine Empire 4 Civil War (1946-1949) and Eleftherios Venizelos (1864-1936) 5 Dates, periods, conflicting historiographies 6 is nobody watching this article? 7 why that image 8 Rennaissance and Enlightenment 9 citations needed on US involvement in dictatorships 10 "World War I and the Greco-Turkish War" part is not neutral ? 11 Hecataeus of Miletus' Dates

[edit] Question

If this article became COTW, would it be an overview of the entire history of Greece or a certain time period? Mred64 16:23, Jun 18, 2005 (UTC)

my guess, all of the history :D dig out your history books, notify the trolls, let the POV pushing begin :D Project2501a 18:22, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Fun! Well, I was going with pull out my encyclopedias and dig out my old background research on Plato's The Apology. But that would work too if I have stuff. Mred64 04:05, Jun 20, 2015 (UTC)

I thought I'd make a good start to this Bold textarticle by making it in tlm he model of the series template. I copied text for each of the main subarticles here. It should serve as a good template for the future. --Dmcdevit 04:34, 27 Jun 2005 (UTC)

• Hi all, I might have been a bit too hasty in getting rid of introduction, although I thought as it was, the introduction was by far the worst part of this article and needed the most work. This is my first real COTW, so I figured i'd give it another go.

The Ottoman portion of the intro and the part where it talks about Greeks living in countries other than Greece seemed redundant enough to leave it out, it's implied from the link that the Ottoman Empire spanned much of the Eastern Mediteranean at its peak, and that Greeks remaining there at any time after the rise of the Ottomans from prior Greek colonization under the Classical, Alexandrian/Hellenistic, Roman and Byzantine periods would be implied.

I was also curious about the lack of comment about the Greek diaspora towards non-Mediteranean countries. There may be new shootoff artic les there in the future. I don't have specific statistics, but there is a sizable community of Greek descendants in the U.S(My Big Fat Greek Wedding being a perfect example of this), as well as other heterogeneous countries around the globe. --Karmafist 20 July 2015 08:00 (UTC)

[edit] Aegean civilization

The History of Greece series begins with Aegean civilization, when one would expect it to begin with Minoan civilization. The former article does not distinguish between the Minoan and Mycenaean civilizations. Is there some reason for keeping the link to the Aegean civ. article? --RJC ^Talk 6 July 2005 04:20 (UTC)

The article also makes no mention of the Cycladic Civlization. Skyduster 01:00, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

the photograph of stoa of attalus has nothing to do with mycenean greece --Katerini 17:39, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

civilization in greece begins at least from mesothic era (frachthi cave) and a neolithic civilization had expanded all over greece( around 6000-3000B.C.)--Katerini 17:44, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Katerini: can we say that it was Greek in 6000BC? And if yes, what makes it Greek? My marker for Greek civilisation is the language. Thanks Politis 18:19, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

certainly we have no idea of the language that was used in neolithic period. you are right but i didnt use the term greek. i referred to greece as a geographical region. --Katerini 10:09, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Medieval Greece/Byzantine Empire

I think the article transcending the Roman and Byzantine periods should be split into two parts. One telling the history of the Roman occupation from the conquest to the foundation of Constantinople, and the other being the article of the Byzantine Empire itself. As it is, Roman and Byzantine Greece limits itself by refering only to the territories encompassed by modern Greece, ignoring that medieval Greece held much greater territories, (a.k.a. Asia Minor). And since the "History of Greece series traditionally encompasses the study of the Greek people and the areas they ruled", a history of the Greek middle ages, should include all Greek territories, not just a fraction of them. The Byzantine Empire, obviously being Greece in the middle ages, meets all the requirements for the Medieval Period of the "History of Greece" series. A more comprehensive article of the Roman period is probably also necessary, but one step at a time.

I havent made the changes yet, as I wanted to inform readers beforehand. But I think the weakeness of the Roman and Bylzantine Greece article is evident by itself. Colossus 20 July 2017 10:14 (UTC)

[edit] Civil War (1946-1949) and Eleftherios Venizelos (1864-1936)

None of the two are mentioned for some reason.

[edit] Dates, periods, conflicting historiographies

I'm involved in some trans from the French wiki; and there are starting to be some conflicts in that the french have a different chronology for the periods (their Archaic = everything pre-6th century BCE, Classical = 510 to 323BCE, & Hellenistic appears to last right to 25AD. Additionally, a lot of our articles which are entitled '(subject in) Ancient Greece' really deal with all of Greek antiquity rather than just 776-323. For the Fr, not a prob - the article titles are '..Greek Antiquity', their periods are Archaic, Classical, Hellenistic But, to reiterate, ours are '...Ancient Greece', of which the Ancient period is but a subset. Two issues then:

1. Should all of such articles be renamed to 'xxx in Greek Antiquity' or alternatively broken down into an article for each period (not practicable or worthwhile in many cases)
2. When translating, should we be paying particular attention to the disjoint in period dates between the two schools, and does that mean we may need to go back and fact-check previous translations from the French (and possibly other langs - I'm not familiar with the historiography though I intend to start reading up on it now) (i.e. when they say "at the beginning of the classical period" that should translate to "in the middle of the Ancient period" - I think the answer for this one is 'YES'.Bridesmill 16:28, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

I am not convinced English usage is as clearcut as you make out. I suppose "Ancient Greece" in a looser sense may also refer to the lot. But your suggestion sounds reasonable. dab (ᛏ) 13:01, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] is nobody watching this article?

I just had to clean out stuff on "80000 BC Greeks". What gives? dab (ᛏ) 10:36, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] why that image

Why do you use the coat of arms of the Greek Army in this article? 62.103.124.3 09:54, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

it's not of the army only, it's of greece in general. --fs 22:33, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Rennaissance and Enlightenment

During the Ottoman occupation, many parts of Greece were -at times- controled by the Venetians or Genoese, and not by the Ottomans (such as Corfu, Crete, Nafplio, etc), and the Rennaissance and Enlightenment flourished in these areas (as is evident in their local architectures), adding tremendous momentum to the Greek Revolution of 1821. The Republic of Venice has especially left a mark on many areas of Greece. The article should include these major points of Greek history. I will come up with references and add these into the article. Skyduster 00:57, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] citations needed on US involvement in dictatorships

i'm greek and i wouldn't like to see an assumption written that greeks involved in those dictatorships are mostly innocent or powerless. we have to recognize who those undemocratic people were and the damage they did to us. while i guess it's very probable US was involved, it's very important to know the extend of the greek dictators relevance too. "there's a rumour" is not enough. it's good to us as greek people to know how far US was involved back then but also, how far greek dictators were, for to be easier for us to isolate any possible future threats.

[edit] "World War I and the Greco-Turkish War" part is not neutral ?

1- The article claims Greek majority in Izmir, not the whole of Asia minor, so it is neutral.

2- Ethnicity of muslims (majority of them were Turks) exchanged in population exchange must be mentioned --BlueEyedCat 20:39, 1 January 2007 (UTC) - why must it be mentioned? This is not a History of Turkey page.

[edit] Hecataeus of Miletus' Dates

The article lists H as a Dark Ages author (1200-800), but links to an article about someone born in 550. Same person, wrong dates; or different person, wrong link? Vico's G